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Old 03-23-2004, 08:09 PM   #46
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Maybe the truth is somewhere in between.

most likely correct


I don't know if there even is a "truth" any more.



O'Neil seem credible when he said, "I am a very rich old white guy.

I don't need anything from anybody. They can't hurt me."

or something to that effect.


All the cover-up, classifying, and hiding behind National Security has caused me to not trust or give this Administration any benefit of doubt.
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Old 03-23-2004, 08:10 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep
All the cover-up, classifying, and hiding behind National Security has caused me to not trust or give this Administration any benefit of doubt.
What makes this Administration different - other than your hatred of GWB?
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Old 03-23-2004, 08:34 PM   #48
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You misread my posts if you think I hate GWB.

He seems likable on a personable level.



Most often I refer to the Administration.


I believe many hated Bill Clinton, He pretty much controlled his Administration. I do not believe W. is in control. I hear many people say that he has surrounded himself with the "best" people
I strongly disagree.





I told the wife and kids I would not be home for supper.

I am at the office reviewing and writing contracts.

Must say no to Blue Crack for now.

Fair question,

I will get back with what I consider major differences concerning this administration versus previous.
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Old 03-23-2004, 11:19 PM   #49
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Originally posted by Dreadsox


Maybe I can get beat up by both sides (Left and Right in FYM) for looking for the truth.
Dread, now why would you do that?
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Old 03-24-2004, 04:00 AM   #50
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I don't come here anymore, but I saw an article in our newspaper about this today - some very interesting points. Nice to see the truth coming out, little by litte...

Clarke had a conversation with Bush on Sep 12th, and Bush insisted they search the connection with Iraq/Saddam, even though Clarke told him flat out it was Al Qaeda. Clarke also said by going to Iraq the administration steered away from fighting terrorism, and they opened a brand new spot for terorrists to come in, plus they additionally increased the threat to the US.
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Old 03-24-2004, 11:02 AM   #51
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Clarke will be on Larry King tonight.. not that Larry is a good interviewer, but I'll watch it anyway

I think Clarke is also supposed to testify before the Sept 11th commission today
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Old 03-24-2004, 11:19 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2girl
I don't come here anymore, but I saw an article in our newspaper about this today - some very interesting points. Nice to see the truth coming out, little by litte...

Clarke had a conversation with Bush on Sep 12th, and Bush insisted they search the connection with Iraq/Saddam, even though Clarke told him flat out it was Al Qaeda. Clarke also said by going to Iraq the administration steered away from fighting terrorism, and they opened a brand new spot for terorrists to come in, plus they additionally increased the threat to the US.
I'm happy Bush did pull him aside and ask about a possible connection with Iraq. Bush would be neglecting his duties as President if he did not.

Clarke is flat out wrong on Iraq. The United States Army's 3rd Infantry Division, the 1st Marine MEF, and the 1st British Armored Division, were NEVER involved in the hunt for Al Quada. These units did the bulk of all the fighting in Iraq to remove Saddam from power!

Iraq now is developing into a democracy where before it was a serious threat to regional and global security because of Saddam.
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Old 03-24-2004, 11:36 AM   #53
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Originally posted by STING2
Clarke is flat out wrong on Iraq. The United States Army's 3rd Infantry Division, the 1st Marine MEF, and the 1st British Armored Division, were NEVER involved in the hunt for Al Quada.
Maybe they should've been.
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Old 03-24-2004, 12:54 PM   #54
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Originally posted by MrBrau1


Maybe they should've been.
The above Units are composed of Heavy Tanks, Heavy Artillery, large fuel and ammo trucks. These units are not best suited for chasing some guy walking around in the high mountains of Afghanistan and walking through caves. Light infantry units are best for operating in the type of terain that Bin Ladin is hiding in. The USA has over 10,000 such troops in Afghanistan at the moment. 3 times as many as were there when the Taliban were overthrown at the end of 2001.
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Old 03-24-2004, 04:28 PM   #55
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Originally posted by U2girl
with Bush on Sep 12th, and Bush insisted they search the connection with Iraq/Saddam, even though Clarke told him flat out it was Al Qaeda. Clarke also said by going to Iraq the administration steered away from fighting terrorism, and they opened a brand new spot for terorrists to come in, plus they additionally increased the threat to the US.
Oh my goodness....this is shocking....Asking someone to investigate where the terrorists came from.

If Bush had listened to Rumsfeld on day one after the attack we would have gone into Iraq immediately.

Thank goodness the President was intelligent enough to hold the warmongers at bay, and ask Clarke to research it.

Of course, that is not the way we will portray it though.
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Old 03-25-2004, 07:23 AM   #56
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You misunderstood, they knew it was Al Qaeda yet Bush's obsession with Iraq prevailed. All the talk from Bush about fighting on terrorism came after 9/11, and not prior.

Clarke said in his testimony he wanted to brief Bush on Al Qaeda danger back in January 2001 but couldn't. He also is the first - and only - member of the administration to apologise for failing to do anything/prevent about 9/11, and in his testimony offered a way to thwart that plan (had he known about terrorists being in the US, he suggested to put their names/pics on TV stations, newspapers and trigger a massive manhunt. maybe they'd catch the two men CIA knew about, maybe they'd scare off the others or at least make it harder for them to finish their plan...now we'll never know)

CIA knew there were two Al Qaeda members (the 9/11 attackers) in the US back in latte 2000, yet did nothing. FBI agent wrote in the Williams memo he saw a suspicous man (another terrorist) attending flight schools, he suggested checking all flight schools in US and nothing happened after that.

Fact is, Bush administration messed up big time on that day - and they even have the nerve to keep bringing it up. How he is now portrayed as a leader that keeps US safe I will never know. Saying the world is a safer place after that horrible event, and in light of things such as Bali and Marid bombings is either hopelessly naive or coldheartedly cynical.
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Old 03-25-2004, 07:33 AM   #57
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Here's a link to go with the story, it's from the Boston Globe:
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/ar...s_for_sept_11/

Quote:
Clarke hits terror effort, apologizes for Sept. 11
Says Bush team lacked an early sense of urgency
Some snippets from the article:
Quote:
Richard A. Clarke, taking the stand before the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States, also became the first government figure to publicly apologize for not preventing the deadly hijacked-plane attacks that killed 3,000 people.

"Those entrusted with protecting you failed you," Clarke said in an emotional opening statement before the 10-member panel. "And I failed you. We tried hard, but that doesn't matter because we failed. And for that failure, I would ask, once all the facts are out, for your understanding and for your forgiveness."

Clarke's apology prompted commission member Richard Ben-Veniste to respond: "I want to express my appreciation for the fact that you have come before this commission and stated in front of the world your apology for what went wrong. To my knowledge, you're the first to do that."
Quote:
"My impression was that fighting terrorism in general, and fighting Al Qaeda in particular, [was] an extraordinarily high priority in the Clinton administration; certainly [there was] no higher a priority," Clarke testified.

But the environment was markedly different once Bush was in office, he said.

"I believe the Bush administration in the first eight months considered terrorism an important issue but not an urgent issue," Clarke said. "[CIA Director] George Tenet and I tried very hard to create a sense of urgency by seeing to it that intelligence reports on the Al Qaeda threat were frequently given to the president and other high-level officials. And there was a process underway to address Al Qaeda. But although I continued to say it was an urgent problem, I don't think it was ever treated that way."
Marty
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Old 03-25-2004, 10:28 AM   #58
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Well argued, Dread and BVS. And well corrected on the admins Clark has served under, Verte. Sting, might be nice if you just admitted, "Hey, folks, I had that fact wrong."

Can anyone suggest what Clark might have to gain by simply opportunism? Just trying to scored a best seller? He's retired after a successful career, and he's stated publically and under oath that he doesn't want a position with Kerry's admin, nor will he accept one. Also, it strikes me that he's the ONLY one in this admin to have said, "Yes we could have and should have done more. I share the blame. I'm so sorry!" His apology yesterday was classy, and added to his creds for me, esp. in contrast to Dr. Rice, who apparently had time for the talk show circuits and press conferences to discredit Clark, but couldn't be bothered to testify before a *bipartisan* commission investigating one of the worst disasters ever to befall our country.

SD
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Old 03-25-2004, 01:55 PM   #59
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I am still not convinced that Clarke's motives are completely noble. I have also read enough about him to understand that he was responsible for some screw ups. But in that business.....you cannot predict everything.
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Old 03-25-2004, 02:20 PM   #60
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I am still not convinced that Clarke's motives are completely noble.
Show me one in the White House who is?
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