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Old 03-23-2004, 12:50 PM   #31
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Thats disputed by the fact that the company that publishes it already had it on its website in January schedualed to come out in April of this year.

More importantly, 9/11 happened in 2001. If Clarke's allegations are true, he could of resigned in 2001 and brought these things to the media's attention. While his book has not come out till now, there was nothing stopping from going public with what he said on 60 minutes prior to last Sunday. Fact is, Clarke did not do these things.
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Old 03-23-2004, 01:07 PM   #32
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How does that dispute the fact? It will be interesting to see more Bush staffers come out w/ what really went on behind closed doors. O'neil, Clarke. Who will be next?
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Old 03-23-2004, 01:12 PM   #33
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Yes because we know it's so easy to come out and talk against this administration...
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Old 03-23-2004, 01:56 PM   #34
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Originally posted by MrBrau1
How does that dispute the fact? It will be interesting to see more Bush staffers come out w/ what really went on behind closed doors. O'neil, Clarke. Who will be next?
O'neil, Clarke, both disgrunteled employs with an axe to ground. Rest assured there will be something else as were 7 months away from a Presidential election.

Oh and it disputes the fact that it was held up because the company that publishes was initially planning to put out the book in April anyways. It has come out earlier now. But if Clarke really thought there was a problem, he could have come out in 2001. He didn't.
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Old 03-23-2004, 02:00 PM   #35
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Yes but one of the main thrusts of his book is that the war in Iraq pulled forces and resources away from Afganistan, where the real terrorists were. That hadn't happened in 2001.
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Old 03-23-2004, 02:14 PM   #36
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Mr. Brau....outstanding points.

Clarke, does have to be held accountable for the failures of his work....

ie embassy bombings, USS Cole, World Trade Center X2
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Old 03-23-2004, 04:26 PM   #37
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He has spent most of it serving under Democratic Administrations. If he is not trying to make a quick buck and really does care about US security, why is he only telling the public now as his book is being released?
He's served three Republicans (Reagan, who appointed him, Bush Sr. and Bush Jr.) and one Democrat, Clinton.
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Old 03-23-2004, 04:34 PM   #38
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Mr. Brau....outstanding points.

Clarke, does have to be held accountable for the failures of his work....

ie embassy bombings, USS Cole, World Trade Center X2
Well, you'll never hear about any of his successes, bombings that didn't happen.
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Old 03-23-2004, 04:41 PM   #39
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Well, you'll never hear about any of his successes, bombings that didn't happen.
On 60 minutes, they did talk about a success.
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Old 03-23-2004, 04:45 PM   #40
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Yeah, he did. He also spoke last Nite On Charlie Rose. But there are countless attacks which were thwarted, that we'll never hear about, under Bush or Clinton. Oh, and as for his threatening National Security by writing the book, he had to submit the book to the Feds, so they could approve it. Not even an issue.
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Old 03-23-2004, 05:00 PM   #41
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[Q]Politicized intelligence . . .


By Mansoor Ijaz



LONDON. Richard Clarke, former White House counterterrorism czar for Presidents Bill Clinton and George W. Bush, testifies today before the commission investigating the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks against the United States. He is well-qualified to do so because few individuals over the last decade, inside or outside government, better understood the Islamic extremism threat in all its dimensions.
But rather than deliver a factual recounting and analysis of intelligence failures and politically charged antiterrorism policies that plagued his years as coordinator for counterterrorism operations, he has chosen to characterize the Bush White House as indifferent to the threat posed by Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda network prior to the September 11 attacks without consideration for the failures on his watch during the Clinton years. This is inaccurate and adds nothing to our understanding of how distant terrorists could plan and carry out such daring and effective attacks.
Mr. Clarke's premise that Bush national security officials neither understood nor cared to know anything about al Qaeda is simply untrue. I know because on multiple occasions from June until late August 2001, I personally briefed Stephen J. Hadley, deputy national security adviser to President Bush, and members of his South Asia, Near East and East Africa staff at the National Security Council on precisely what had gone wrong during the Clinton years to unearth the extent of the dangers posed by al Qaeda. Some of the briefings were in the presence of former members of the Clinton administration's national security team to ensure complete transparency.
Far from being disinterested, the Bush White House was eager to avoid making the same mistakes of the previous administration and wanted creative new inputs for how to combat al Qaeda's growing threat.

Mr. Clarke's role figured in two key areas of the debriefings Sudan's offer to share terrorism data on al Qaeda and bin Laden in 1997, and a serious effort by senior members of the Abu Dhabi royal family to gain bin Laden's extradition from Afghanistan in early 2000.
Fall 1997: Sudan's offer is accepted by Secretary of State Madeleine Albright, then rejected by Mr. Clarke and Clinton National Security Adviser Samuel "Sandy" Berger.
Sudan's president, Omar Hasan El Bashir, made an unconditional offer of counterterrorism assistance to the vice chairman of the September 11 Commission, then Rep. Lee Hamilton, Indiana Democrat, through my hands on April 19, 1997. Five months later on Sept. 28, 1997, after an exhaustive interagency review at the entrenched bureaucracy level of the U.S. government, Mrs. Albright announced the U.S. would send a high-level diplomatic team back to Khartoum to pressure its Islamic government to stop harboring Arab terrorists and to review Sudan data on terrorist groups operating from there.
As the re-engagement policy took shape, Susan E. Rice, incoming assistant secretary of state for East Africa, went to Mr. Clarke, made her anti-Sudan case and asked him to jointly approach Mr. Berger about the wisdom of Mrs. Albright's decision. Together, they recommended its reversal.The decision was overturned on Oct. 1, 1997.
Without Mr. Clarke's consent, Mr. Berger is unlikely to have gone along with such an early confrontation with the first woman to hold the highest post at Foggy Bottom.
U.S. Embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed by al Qaeda 10 months later. Files with detailed data on three of the embassy bombers were among the casualties of Mr. Clarke's decision to recommend missile attacks on an empty Khartoum pharmaceutical plant rather than get Sudan's data out almost a year earlier to begin unraveling al Qaeda's network.
To this day, neither Mr. Berger nor Mr. Clarke has explained to the American people why a deliberative decision of the U.S. government, made by interagency review, was overturned in such cavalier fashion by a small clique of Clinton advisers in the face of Sudan's unconditional April 1997 offer to cooperate on terrorism issues. If he was interested in facts, why did Mr. Clarke spurn the recommendations of his own intelligence and foreign policy institutions that the Sudanese offer be explored? Why did he not act on the Sudanese intelligence chief's direct approach to the FBI, of which he was aware, in early 1998 just prior to the final planning stages of the embassy bombings?
Spring 2000: Abu Dhabi's offer to get bin Laden out of Afghanistan falls flat.
In late 1999, after a barrage of threats from al Qaeda's senior leadership against the Abu Dhabi royal family, a senior family member approached the Taliban foreign minister and Mullah Omar to discuss mechanisms for getting bin Laden out of Afghanistan. Mr. Clarke, who enjoyed close relations with the Abu Dhabi family, was brought into the loop early to prevent separation between Washington and Abu Dhabi on such a sensitive matter.
While Mr. Clarke was skeptical of the idea at first, he played ball long enough to understand the real intentions of the Taliban regime. Smart enough, except when the deal got real.
As the strategy started taking shape in earnest a personal request from President Clinton to Sheikh Zayed, Abu Dhabi's ruler, seeking help to get bin Laden coupled with a $5 billion pan-Arab Afghan Development Fund that would be offered in return for bin Laden taking residence under house arrest in Abu Dhabi, with the possibility of extraditing him later to the United States Mr. Clarke again scuttled the deal by opting instead for the militaristic solution. He pushed for armed CIA predator drones to hunt bin Laden in the remote mountains of northeastern Afghanistan.
Abu Dhabi was left with a black eye. The Taliban became even more aggressive in allowing al Qaeda to plan and carry out terrorist operations from Afghan soil. Another chance to capture the world's most notorious terrorist had been lost.
Mr. Clarke's selective memory serves no interest but his own agenda. He personifies the politicizing of intelligence by pointing fingers during the political high season for failures that not only occurred on his watch but also were due partly to his grand vision he would one day personally authorize a drone operation to kill bin Laden.
Mr. Clarke, as he testifies today, should remember he served at the pleasure of the American people. He was appointed to defend us against the very terrorists he repeatedly assessed inaccurately. A grateful nation recognizes the difficulty of his task but we ask that he stick to facts rather than inject vitriol and untruths into a debate that must yield answers to help protect our children in the future.

Mansoor Ijaz is chairman of Crescent Investment Management in New York. [/Q]

Now I find thisinteresting.

Mr. Clarke has made TWO DECISIONS that I have consistently criticized. The first obvious one, was not accepting the offer to extradite bin Laden. Times 2.

The second, is that Pharmacutical Plant. Not good. I am/was horrified that career people who opposed this action were threatened to be courtmartialed for not carrying out orders.

I am wondering more, if Mr. Clarke were more pissed off over his demotion, and was out of the loop on things going on in the White House. I am not sure I would want him on my team looking at these two decisions.
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Old 03-23-2004, 06:33 PM   #42
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Clarke Praises Bush in Resignation Letter

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WASHINGTON - The White House, seeking to cool criticism from a former top anti-terror adviser, said Tuesday that Richard Clarke's resignation letter praised President Bush (news - web sites)'s "courage, determination, calm and leadership" on Sept. 11, 2001.


"It has been an enormous privilege to serve you these last 24 months," said the Jan. 20, 2003, letter from Clarke to Bush. "I will always remember the courage, determination, calm, and leadership you demonstrated on September 11th."


The letter was stamped "the president has seen" the next day.
I guess there is more money in "scandelous" books....
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Old 03-23-2004, 06:45 PM   #43
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Who is Mansoor?


Quote:
Mansoor Ijaz

Mansoor Ijaz is a foreign affairs commentator on Fox News and in the National Review. He also runs the investment firm Crescent Investment Group, Inc. whose top advisors and/or directors also include former CIA director R. James Woolsey, Jr.. He has also sat on the Council on Foreign Relations. According to the Pakistani daily, Dawn, he is a "lobbyist for Pakistan."

In 1996, Ijaz attempted to broker a hand-over of Osama bin Laden from the government of the Sudan to the U.S. and has ever since criticized the Clinton National Security team of having failed to get their man. This story has telescoped through the right wing press to lay blame on Clinton et al. for having failed to fight terrorism. According to Samuel Berger, who was National Security Advisor under Clinton, Ijaz was unreliable because of his oil investment interests in Sudan. (There's an interesting side-bar on this on p. 113 of Al Franken's Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them.)

Ijaz also managed to become involved in the Daniel Pearl situation in 2002. According to Dawn, Ijaz was a reference given by Pearl to Khalid Khawaja, a former Pakistani intelligence officer; Pearl had hoped Khawaja would arrange a meeting between himself and Shah Gillani, reportedly Richard Reid's spiritual mentor.

Ijaz has been on the forefront of arguing in his National Review Online pieces that there was a connection between Saddam Hussein and al Qaeda, and he has been advocating to increase U.S. military support for the Pakistani Government, especially the sale of F-16s.
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Old 03-23-2004, 06:49 PM   #44
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Try watching a little Fox News and you''ll get to see him.
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Old 03-23-2004, 07:44 PM   #45
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So what is your point Deep?

Is his view of things any less valid? or is Mr. Clarke's more valid?

Maybe the truth is somewhere in between.

Maybe I can get beat up by both sides (Left and Right in FYM) for looking for the truth.
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