Everyone's talking about Obama, when McCain's allied with John Hagie - Page 6 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 03-25-2008, 08:24 AM   #76
Blue Crack Addict
 
MrsSpringsteen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 24,974
Local Time: 08:07 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by deep

Hillary called Nigger? I don't think so.
but has Wright even been caller a middle aged CUNT in a dumpy pant suit?
Actually that's an interesting point. I'm quite sure some people would feel free to call her that word in public and/or in discussion. How many would feel just as free to call Senator Obama the n word? I have seen the c word used on Interference plenty of times, including in FYM to describe various women. Is the n word allowed here in that same context? Don't think so.

While I agree with Rev Wright that Hillary has never been called the n word, I disagree completely with him when he says that she, as a woman, doesn't know what it's like to be treated as a non person. Many women know what that is like. Is it on the same level as racism? Most likely not, and not for me to say really as a white person. You can argue the c word vs the n word, but both are dehumanizing.
__________________

__________________
MrsSpringsteen is offline  
Old 03-25-2008, 08:46 AM   #77
ONE
love, blood, life
 
A_Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 11:07 AM
I disagree, there is no appealing come hither use of nigger.
__________________

__________________
A_Wanderer is offline  
Old 03-25-2008, 08:47 AM   #78
Blue Crack Addict
 
MrsSpringsteen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 24,974
Local Time: 08:07 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
I disagree, there is no appealing come hither use of nigger.
Is that supposed to be a joke?

Does that work for you?
__________________
MrsSpringsteen is offline  
Old 03-25-2008, 09:10 AM   #79
ONE
love, blood, life
 
A_Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 11:07 AM
I can think of an example where it was used by the other party in a perfectly reasonable way without a hint of self-deprecation, it was not a misogynistic joke.

How a word is used is dehumanising, there is a big difference between calling somebody a cunt because they are a bastard or a dick personality wise (there isn't any misandry in calling someone a dick or a cockhead etc.) and reducing a woman to a mere tool for base function. I do not think that words can be inherently dehumanising in and of themselves.

The instantaneous response however makes it fertile ground for high comedy; getting up on stage and spewing sexist drivel could border on genius if done right.
__________________
A_Wanderer is offline  
Old 03-25-2008, 09:13 AM   #80
She's the One
 
martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Orange County and all over the goddamn place
Posts: 42,332
Local Time: 05:07 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer

The instantaneous response however makes it fertile ground for high comedy; getting up on stage and spewing sexist drivel could border on genius if done right.
If you say so.
__________________
martha is offline  
Old 03-25-2008, 09:24 AM   #81
ONE
love, blood, life
 
A_Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 11:07 AM
For the same reason that Borat interviewing the Veteran Feminists of America ilicits laughter. It is the mockery of the self-righteous attitudes - it has nothing to do with the merits of universal suffrage and equality and everything to do with making fun of something considered beyond repproach.

If somebody was truly commited to staging such a routine I think that it would be more controversial than an act that involved burning a Bible.

And to clarify the reason even in writing this I anticipate an negative response that implies that I think womens rights are a laughing matter ergo they don't matter.
__________________
A_Wanderer is offline  
Old 03-25-2008, 11:01 AM   #82
Blue Crack Addict
 
MrsSpringsteen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 24,974
Local Time: 08:07 PM
Well Jane Fonda using that word on the Today Show when she was talking about the Vagina Monologues was fine.

But if a male uses that word at me, I ain't gonna like it and I know what it means and what the intent is. No confusion there. Words aren't inherently dehumanizing and it does depend upon the context. But if Kramer had gotten up and used that word and went into a sexist rant there wouldn't have been the (or any really) outrage about it. What if it had just been "hos" instead of "nappy headed hos"?
__________________
MrsSpringsteen is offline  
Old 03-25-2008, 01:46 PM   #83
She's the One
 
martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Orange County and all over the goddamn place
Posts: 42,332
Local Time: 05:07 PM
I didn't go see Borat.
__________________
martha is offline  
Old 03-25-2008, 03:50 PM   #84
ONE
love, blood, life
 
financeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 10,122
Local Time: 02:07 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen


Actually that's an interesting point. I'm quite sure some people would feel free to call her that word in public and/or in discussion. How many would feel just as free to call Senator Obama the n word? I have seen the c word used on Interference plenty of times, including in FYM to describe various women. Is the n word allowed here in that same context? Don't think so.

While I agree with Rev Wright that Hillary has never been called the n word, I disagree completely with him when he says that she, as a woman, doesn't know what it's like to be treated as a non person. Many women know what that is like. Is it on the same level as racism? Most likely not, and not for me to say really as a white person. You can argue the c word vs the n word, but both are dehumanizing.
This is actually a rather illogical post, because, if anything, 'cunt' and, for that matter, 'prick' are much more likely to be used as insulting words against men rather than women.

It's interesting that the culture views 'cunt' as a much more offensive term than 'prick'.

One is a slang term for the female genital organs, while the other is a slang term for the male sexual organ.

However, 'cunt' is viewed as much more offensive - almost a taboo word - yet 'prick' is only viewed as a mild profanity.

Could it be that this is because when women complain vociferously (and justifiably, it must be said) about a slang term for the female genital organs being used as an insult, their concerns are taken seriously by society - whereas mens' concens aren't?

Could it actually be that men aren't permitted to get offended, but are just expected to lap it up, take it on the chin, etc?
__________________
financeguy is offline  
Old 03-25-2008, 03:57 PM   #85
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,473
Local Time: 08:07 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by financeguy


This is actually a rather illogical post, because, if anything, 'cunt' and, for that matter, 'prick' are much more likely to be used as insulting words against men rather than women.

It's interesting that the culture views 'cunt' as a much more offensive term than 'prick'.

One is a slang term for the female genital organs, while the other is a slang term for the male sexual organ.

However, 'cunt' is viewed as much more offensive - almost a taboo word - yet 'prick' is only viewed as a mild profanity.

Could it be that this is because when women complain vociferously (and justifiably, it must be said) about a slang term for the female genital organs being used as an insult, their concerns are taken seriously by society - whereas mens' concens aren't?

Could it actually be that men aren't permitted to get offended, but are just expected to lap it up, take it on the chin, etc?


could it be that the word "cunt" was often followed by a rape or a beating?

would you similarly differentiate between (and these are American phrases, so we already know how much culture matters when it comes to this stuff) "honkey" and "n*gger"?

or does the structural power difference between men and women, and between whites and blacks, actually have much to do with the actual definition of the word and the reason why it's so offensive? that embedded into the definition of the word is the threat of violence?
__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 03-25-2008, 04:01 PM   #86
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tempe, Az USA
Posts: 12,856
Local Time: 06:07 PM

Here's one for you guys to fight over, written by an intelligent *man of color who is an intellectual giant and conservative, liberals' worst nightmare. Operational db9 chaos theory rolls forward, gleefully.

I suspect mr. deep may even agree with Dr Sowell's piece.






March 25, 2008
The Audacity of Rhetoric
By Thomas Sowell

It is painful to watch defenders of Barack Obama tying themselves into knots trying to evade the obvious.

Some are saying that Senator Obama cannot be held responsible for what his pastor, Jeremiah Wright, said. In their version of events, Barack Obama just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time -- and a bunch of mean-spirited people are trying to make something out of it.

It makes a good story, but it won't stand up under scrutiny.

Barack Obama's own account of his life shows that he consciously sought out people on the far left fringe. In college, "I chose my friends carefully," he said in his first book, "Dreams From My Father."

These friends included "Marxist professors and structural feminists and punk rock performance poets" -- in Obama's own words -- as well as the "more politically active black students." He later visited a former member of the terrorist Weatherman underground, who endorsed him when he ran for state senator.

Obama didn't just happen to encounter Jeremiah Wright, who just happened to say some way out things. Jeremiah Wright is in the same mold as the kinds of people Barack Obama began seeking out in college -- members of the left, anti-American counter-culture.

In Shelby Steele's brilliantly insightful book about Barack Obama -- "A Bound Man" -- it is painfully clear that Obama was one of those people seeking a racial identity that he had never really experienced in growing up in a white world. He was trying to become a convert to blackness, as it were -- and, like many converts, he went overboard.

Nor has Obama changed in recent years. His voting record in the U.S. Senate is the furthest left of any Senator. There is a remarkable consistency in what Barack Obama has done over the years, despite inconsistencies in what he says.

The irony is that Obama's sudden rise politically to the level of being the leading contender for his party's presidential nomination has required him to project an entirely different persona, that of a post-racial leader who can heal divisiveness and bring us all together.

The ease with which he has accomplished this chameleon-like change, and entranced both white and black Democrats, is a tribute to the man's talent and a warning about his reliability.

There is no evidence that Obama ever sought to educate himself on the views of people on the other end of the political spectrum, much less reach out to them. He reached out from the left to the far left. That's bringing us all together?

Is "divisiveness" defined as disagreeing with the agenda of the left? Who on the left was ever called divisive by Obama before that became politically necessary in order to respond to revelations about Jeremiah Wright?

One sign of Obama's verbal virtuosity was his equating a passing comment by his grandmother -- "a typical white person," he says -- with an organized campaign of public vilification of America in general and white America in particular, by Jeremiah Wright.

Since all things are the same, except for the differences, and different except for the similarities, it is always possible to make things look similar verbally, however different they are in the real world.

Among the many desperate gambits by defenders of Senator Obama and Jeremiah Wright is to say that Wright's words have a "resonance" in the black community.

There was a time when the Ku Klux Klan's words had a resonance among whites, not only in the South but in other states. Some people joined the KKK in order to advance their political careers. Did that make it OK? Is it all just a matter of whose ox is gored?

While many whites may be annoyed by Jeremiah Wright's words, a year from now most of them will probably have forgotten about him. But many blacks who absorb his toxic message can still be paying for it, big-time, for decades to come.

Why should young blacks be expected to work to meet educational standards, or even behavioral standards, if they believe the message that all their problems are caused by whites, that the deck is stacked against them? That is ultimately a message of hopelessness, however much audacity it may have.

Copyright 2008, Creators Syndicate Inc.
__________________
diamond is offline  
Old 03-25-2008, 04:06 PM   #87
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,473
Local Time: 08:07 PM
[Q]One sign of Obama's verbal virtuosity was his equating a passing comment by his grandmother -- "a typical white person," he says -- with an organized campaign of public vilification of America in general and white America in particular, by Jeremiah Wright.
[/Q]



i think this wins the "distortion of the week" prize.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 03-25-2008, 04:08 PM   #88
ONE
love, blood, life
 
financeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 10,122
Local Time: 02:07 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
could it be that the word "cunt" was often followed by a rape or a beating?
I find this an odd question, as in my experience this term is generally used against men rather than women (usually by other males, it must be said.) So, no, if I jokingly called one of my male friends a cunt, I probably wouldn't follow it up with a rape or beating.


Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511


would you similarly differentiate between (and these are American phrases, so we already know how much culture matters when it comes to this stuff) "honkey" and "n*gger"?
Do black criminals call white victims 'honkey' before they attack them?

Because all the available evidence shows that white people are considerably more likely to be victims of crime perpretated by blacks than vice versa.
__________________
financeguy is offline  
Old 03-25-2008, 04:23 PM   #89
Forum Moderator
 
yolland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,471
Local Time: 02:07 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by financeguy
This is actually a rather illogical post, because, if anything, 'cunt' and, for that matter, 'prick' are much more likely to be used as insulting words against men rather than women.
Not in the US, in fact it's almost unheard of for a man to be called 'cunt' here. 'Bitch' is the reigning casual pejorative in US English for a woman one feels disgruntled with.
Quote:
However, 'cunt' is viewed as much more offensive - almost a taboo word - yet 'prick' is only viewed as a mild profanity.
Because comparing someone to female sex organs is seen as a much lower blow than comparing them to male sex organs.
__________________
yolland [at] interference.com


μελετώ αποτυγχάνειν. -- Διογένης της Σινώπης
yolland is offline  
Old 03-25-2008, 04:30 PM   #90
ONE
love, blood, life
 
financeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 10,122
Local Time: 02:07 AM
I am genuinely surprised.

Well, I guess it's another example of cultural differences.
__________________

__________________
financeguy is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:07 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com