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Old 01-09-2006, 05:15 PM   #1
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European Christianity in decline

http://news.yahoo.com/s/usatoday/200...oddeadineurope

Thoughts?
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Old 01-09-2006, 05:18 PM   #2
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"Europe is showing us where this path leads. It is not the right path for America."

Good summary
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Old 01-09-2006, 05:27 PM   #3
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Quote:
In his 2001 book, The Death of the West, conservative commentator
Patrick Buchanan argues that a European-style "de-Christianization of America" is the goal of many liberals - and they are succeeding.
and he has advice about the U. S. relationship with Israel, too.
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Old 01-09-2006, 05:33 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep


and he has advice about the U. S. relationship with Israel, too.
I thought the article was about Europe, not Buchanan
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Old 01-09-2006, 05:42 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


I thought the article was about Europe, not Buchanan
i did read the article

and my quote is in the article supporting the article's premise

If Buchannan is to be believed about Europe,

is he not to be believed about the U. S. relationship with Israel?
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Old 01-09-2006, 05:46 PM   #6
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An odd bit of logic, to be sure.
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Old 01-09-2006, 05:49 PM   #7
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Quote:
As only an occasional visitor to Europe, I claim no expertise in these matters.
This pretty much sums up this article.

There aren't any facts, just a lot of speculation.

And it seems like he's talking about the decline in Catholocism, not Christianity...
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Old 01-09-2006, 05:49 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
An odd bit of logic, to be sure.
sure, the whole article is


but, they will print what certain groups
want to hear that validate their world view.
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Old 01-09-2006, 06:08 PM   #9
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Then why not address the specifics of the article?

The Catholic Church has had a significant, yet declining, influence in Europe over the last two centuries. I've seen many state that it is as much a cultural experience as it is religious.

For all the ornate cathedrals in Europe, do people visit them to find God, or to see history?
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Old 01-09-2006, 06:27 PM   #10
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for history


it is arrogance to believe that a building can contain god

America could get much closer to God if that stayed away from printed words on money

and from people using his name for their own vanity

by just following the teachings Jesus of Nazareth

Love and Charity and ministering to the poor
was about all he did

he was not concerned about political appointments or putting people in power

or building funds

I believe there are many more people following these teachings in some European countries
than in many parts of the U. S.

claiming something does not make it so.
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Old 01-09-2006, 06:33 PM   #11
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I don`t realy know what to say about this but a church saying that condoms are not helping against the spread off aids and the intollerance against homosexuals could also been a factor of a declining ( Catholic ) Church.

I think a lot of Christians don`t go to a church anymore because they make their religion more privat ( in their homes )
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Old 01-09-2006, 07:00 PM   #12
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I don't see the problem. I didn't read anything in the article I find at all alarming, in fact some of the things the author apparently finds frightening, I find positive, such as:

Quote:

Former French president Valery Giscard d'Estaing, who presided over the process, summed up the dominant view: "Europeans live in a purely secular political system, where religion does not play an important role."
To me, that is ideal.

I guess whether or not you find the decline in belief in god worrisome or not depends on your views. For instance I don't believe that people who believe in god are better than those who don't. I have dealt with vile people who are strong believers and vile people who are staunch atheists. I've dealt with wonderfully good people who are strong believers and wonderfully good people who are staunch atheists. A vile person who believes in god is just going to use that to justify his/her actions, and a wonderfully good believer who loses his/her faith isn't going to turn into a vile person.

I just don't see any reason for the hand wringing.
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Old 01-09-2006, 07:09 PM   #13
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Post-Christian societies are much more permissive and progressive than their religion influenced equivalents - this can be considered to be a good thing. The price of this is lower birthrates (fewer children later if at all - but definitely below replacement levels) and steady decline in the existing religious structures (and it goes beyond the Catholic Church, there is a decline in the Anglican Church as well - it will be interesting to see if adoption of more progressive religious expression within these structures will save them from extinction).

I am not sure if societies can go on without faith in themselves, if this means a resurgence of faith or a protracted decline that remains to be seen - should be an interesting century either way.
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Old 01-09-2006, 07:13 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by indra
I just don't see any reason for the hand wringing.
Apparently, smaller families are proof of the folly of turning away from God's True Church. (TM)

Far better that we return to the days of tenement slums and 22 child families.
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Old 01-09-2006, 07:18 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by financeguy


Apparently, smaller families are proof of the folly of turning away from God's True Church. (TM)

Far better that we return to the days of tenement slums and 22 child families.
And uneducated women with absolutely no hope of being anything other than a mother to the 22 starving children.
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