equality blooms with spring, pt. II - Page 7 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 11-15-2009, 11:23 PM   #91
She's the One
 
martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Orange County and all over the goddamn place
Posts: 42,338
Local Time: 07:23 AM
That's all my husband and I have, a legal affirmation of romance.

And about, what is the figure now, 100 other benefits gay couples in the exact same situation don't have.
__________________

__________________
martha is offline  
Old 11-15-2009, 11:30 PM   #92
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,500
Local Time: 10:23 AM
time for bed. i look forward to answers tomorrow.
__________________

__________________
Irvine511 is online now  
Old 11-15-2009, 11:36 PM   #93
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The American Resistance
Posts: 4,754
Local Time: 09:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by martha View Post
If I weren't so lazy, or in the middle of trying not to spend $1000 to go see Steve's grandma turn 100 years old, I would do a search and find this exact same conversation with the exact same words and the exact same players from a few years ago. Good gravy. AEON and INDY will repeat their pointless justifications for fear and exclusion, using Jesus and children as shields, and the rest of us will grow impatient with them. Meanwhile, the world will spin forward, and this kind of thinking will fall out of favor.


Oh yes, and if it doesn't fall out soon enough to satisfy martha then, "we know where you live," right? What's a little implied violence to keep the world spinning forward*?

* Definition of forward is not subject to debate, dissent or vote
__________________
INDY500 is offline  
Old 11-15-2009, 11:46 PM   #94
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tempe, Az USA
Posts: 12,856
Local Time: 08:23 AM
What about what Barney Frank said?
__________________
diamond is offline  
Old 11-15-2009, 11:56 PM   #95
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,698
Local Time: 09:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by diamond View Post
What about what Barney Frank said?
What about it?
__________________
BVS is offline  
Old 11-16-2009, 01:25 AM   #96
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
AEON's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: California
Posts: 4,052
Local Time: 08:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by martha View Post
I would do a search and find this exact same conversation with the exact same words and the exact same players from a few years ago. Good gravy.
Is that the same thread were you repeatedly said "lazy" and "answer the question"?
__________________
AEON is offline  
Old 11-16-2009, 01:57 AM   #97
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
AEON's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: California
Posts: 4,052
Local Time: 08:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
what? where did i say this? you've surely put words in my mouth here.





yes, i absolutely think that society thinks it prudent to incentivize marriage, it encourages stability and provides the potential for an optimal environment to raise children. i think marriage is a good thing. i've been saying this over and over.

but, yes, AEON, i, a homosexual, am DENIED access to these benefits on the basis of my sexual orientation. therefore, that becomes a violation of my civil rights. it's not that i have the civil right to get married, the government does not need to find me a spouse. but i should have the civil right to marry a person who also chooses me.

as for fertility, that's entirely moot. we have infertile people who get married, and those who choose not to have children, as well as people who get married later in life. these relationships are surely granted the same privileges as anyone else who enters into the institution.






no, i have contended, and continually contend, that all gay people want is to be allowed into the same tent.

stop putting words into my mouth and ascribing theories that i have not even come close to offering.
Sorry, Irvine - I thought I was summarizing your view.

I've had a few hours to think about things, and I'm leaning toward entirely removing incentives for marriage. In the present state of affairs - it is time I accept that I live in a society that generally does not "think it is prudent" to encourage stable procreation and maintain that "bridge" between generations. Let’s just move to some sort of flat tax model and I’ll be happy.

Leave marriage up to churches and cults or whatever group wants to perform the ceremony to mean whatever they want it to mean. The state should have no role in either granting, recognizing, or denying marriages. In the end, I believe marriage is not a civil right, but a God ordained responsibility. The last thing I want – is the state messing with it. I think of the scene in “Braveheart” when William Walllace got married in secret. It helped me understand that I need not worry - marriage will survive with or without the government.

Irvine, you mentioned the need to limit government’s role in marriage – how will that work for you?
__________________
AEON is offline  
Old 11-16-2009, 02:05 AM   #98
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 30,343
Local Time: 10:23 AM
Which is all well and good, but will never get implemented. So, knowing that marriage will remain in its state, are you still on the side of preventing gay marriage simply because you don't want regular marriage either?
__________________
phillyfan26 is offline  
Old 11-16-2009, 02:59 AM   #99
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The American Resistance
Posts: 4,754
Local Time: 09:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by melon View Post


And "legal affirmation" is all that it is, considering that child bearing is not a requirement of heterosexual marriage, and no amount of gay bashing or wishful thinking would make it so.
Child bearing may not be a requirement for heterosexual marriage but it IS, if not the whole point of, quite often the result of such a union. The same cannot, however, be said of homosexual unions and no amount of wishful thinking would make THAT so.

I don't say that to be mean or to suggest that the inability to reproduce in any way speaks to the individual worth of a person. It most certainly does not, but it does illustrate why many feel gender -- "male" and "female," "husband" and "wife" -- is not insignificant in defining marriage the way ethnicity, religious creed, et cetera, ultimately is.

Now I know the meme that says gender roles are interchangeable goes all but unchallenged in feminist theory, postmodern philosophy, pop culture and in liberal circles today, but the majority of Americans remain very skeptical of the idea.

And 30 some times that skepticism has been reflected at voting booths in every region of the country.
__________________
INDY500 is offline  
Old 11-16-2009, 04:26 AM   #100
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
BonosSaint's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,566
Local Time: 11:23 AM
Just an observation--and an obvious one at that--people tend to support a status quo when they benefit by it and are in some way validated and honored by it. They are protective of it. Protection of status seems to be hardwired. The dirty side of that is that it allows them to see those who are not in the status quo as "other" to be diminished in some way, to be limited in ways they would never seek to limit themselves, to define others in ways they would never accept being defined, to close doors to others that have always been opened to them, to use difference as a weapon to exclude whatever justification they give themselves. Or to put it simply, "I am worthy. You are not."

Gay marriage, women's rights, racism, for sure. But it extends throughout all facets of society--right and left--jockeying for position, to make sure you are included in that better realm (however you define it) and it doesn't feel as sweet unless someone is excluded. "I am better for what I am. I don't have to worry so much about what I do."

That doesn't include everyone, but that lowest common denominator is certainly prevalent.
__________________
BonosSaint is offline  
Old 11-16-2009, 07:55 AM   #101
She's the One
 
martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Orange County and all over the goddamn place
Posts: 42,338
Local Time: 07:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
Oh yes, and if it doesn't fall out soon enough to satisfy martha then, "we know where you live," right? What's a little implied violence to keep the world spinning forward*?

* Definition of forward is not subject to debate, dissent or vote
What the hell are you talking about? Where did I threaten you?
__________________
martha is offline  
Old 11-16-2009, 07:56 AM   #102
She's the One
 
martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Orange County and all over the goddamn place
Posts: 42,338
Local Time: 07:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AEON View Post
Is that the same thread were you repeatedly said "lazy" and "answer the question"?

No. I didn't express my impatience with your long-winded non-answers before this. I think.
__________________
martha is offline  
Old 11-16-2009, 07:59 AM   #103
She's the One
 
martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Orange County and all over the goddamn place
Posts: 42,338
Local Time: 07:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AEON View Post

I've had a few hours to think about things, and I'm leaning toward entirely removing incentives for marriage.
That old Vietnam strategy? Destroy the village in order to save it. Irvine and melon offend you that much? You're willing to eliminate the option of courthouse marriages for straight couples who don't need a church for a "legal affirmation of their romance" just so they can't get hitched to their beloveds?
__________________
martha is offline  
Old 11-16-2009, 08:02 AM   #104
She's the One
 
martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Orange County and all over the goddamn place
Posts: 42,338
Local Time: 07:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
Child bearing may not be a requirement for heterosexual marriage
I'm so relieved that you acknowledge this. I thought for a minute there that MY marriage was also up for a vote.
__________________
martha is offline  
Old 11-16-2009, 08:03 AM   #105
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,698
Local Time: 09:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BonosSaint View Post
Just an observation--and an obvious one at that--people tend to support a status quo when they benefit by it and are in some way validated and honored by it. They are protective of it. Protection of status seems to be hardwired. The dirty side of that is that it allows them to see those who are not in the status quo as "other" to be diminished in some way, to be limited in ways they would never seek to limit themselves, to define others in ways they would never accept being defined, to close doors to others that have always been opened to them, to use difference as a weapon to exclude whatever justification they give themselves. Or to put it simply, "I am worthy. You are not."

Gay marriage, women's rights, racism, for sure. But it extends throughout all facets of society--right and left--jockeying for position, to make sure you are included in that better realm (however you define it) and it doesn't feel as sweet unless someone is excluded. "I am better for what I am. I don't have to worry so much about what I do."

That doesn't include everyone, but that lowest common denominator is certainly prevalent.
Excellent post.

I hear a lot of fear in some of these posts, fear of losing their status, I think there are some white straight males that are scared they will not play the same role in society that their fathers had.

They don't honestly fear that procreation will change, in fact I'm pretty sure most know that the family structure won't change all that much, but they do fear that it's one more advantage that they are going to have taken away from them.
__________________

__________________
BVS is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Random Risque U2 Pictures (PT II) FallingStar PLEBA Archive 147 07-28-2003 03:01 PM
MERGED --> When will Cleveland II be? + Rock Hall Celebration (Spring) CMM Interference Gatherings 80 04-14-2003 10:02 PM
Getcher Classical on! Psst...Dieman. Johnny Swallow Lemonade Stand Archive 8 03-07-2003 04:53 PM
the Europe photos pt. II (including interferencers!!!) sulawesigirl4 Lemonade Stand Archive 61 01-05-2003 03:29 PM
When hormones go bad Pt. II: MacPhisto WildHonee PLEBA Archive 9 11-02-2001 07:36 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:23 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com