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Old 11-20-2009, 09:57 PM   #316
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Originally Posted by financeguy View Post
Could you elaborate on this?
I would rather not “go down that path” because I do care for the feelings of people in here. Getting into a “nitty gritty” list of why I think homosexual acts are wrong will only hurt people and would be unproductive. I think it is sufficient to say that the information is out there – and you either accept it or reject it.

That being said – I do realize my conclusions are different from others and this matter involves two consenting adults. That is why I propose the state not be involved.
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Old 11-20-2009, 10:11 PM   #317
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Originally Posted by AEON View Post
I would rather not “go down that path” because I do care for the feelings of people in here. Getting into a “nitty gritty” list of why I think homosexual acts are wrong will only hurt people and would be unproductive. I think it is sufficient to say that the information is out there – and you either accept it or reject it.

That being said – I do realize my conclusions are different from others and this matter involves two consenting adults. That is why I propose the state not be involved.
A lot of people seemingly are revolted by the thought of 'what de gays get up to'. I don't particularly identify with this frame of thought. I don't like soccer - I don't find it revolting either, it just doesn't interest me.
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Old 11-20-2009, 10:18 PM   #318
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I think I addressed this...
The way you addressed it bothers me.

Imagine if someone told you this:

"AEON, it is not wrong to be heterosexual. In fact, God made you that way, so it can't be wrong. But if you decide to act on it, if you decide to pursue someone you're interested in, fall in love with that person and want to spend the rest of your life with that person, you are actively choosing to live in sin. So rather than try and find happiness in the companionship of a partner like most of us do, you must live the rest of your life resisting any urges to express your sexuality the way the rest of us do, because your sexuality may not be a sin, but expressing it is."

Does that not, on any level at all, register to you as extremely irrational? As extremely unfair?

Now imagine if someone used that justification to bar you from getting the same protections under the law for a committed, monogamous union between you and the love of your life.

Now imagine if you did not believe in God and people still used that justification to deny you legal rights.
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Old 11-20-2009, 10:26 PM   #319
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Oh, and is anyone keeping a score of the questions AEON had dodged?
Martha, you seem rather upset most of the time. Perhaps it just the way you express yourself in this forum. I'm not making a value judgment, you can be angry - it just makes it more challenging to have a dialogue with you.

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In forums like this, or in any debate - it is far easier to ask the questions than to answer them. It seems that there is a bit of trend of people unwilling to post a full, well thought out opinion - choosing to deride the opposition instead of supporting their own ideas which of course, would open their stance to questions and scrutiny.
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Old 11-20-2009, 10:28 PM   #320
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So, we are going the Biblical route?
You brought it up.
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Old 11-20-2009, 10:32 PM   #321
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So people who favor Gay Civil Unions but also favor traditional marriage are similar to David Duke-bigots?
And what do you call folks who oppose both Gay Marriage and Gay Civil Unions?

<>
You're still not getting it, and I'm convinced by now you're purposely being obtuse.

I agree with Barney, DO NOT call people bigots based purely on the fact that they disagree with you. But there are true bigots and they should be pointed out. If you can't handle this, then I truly feel sorry for you.

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Indeed. And that's the main problem with the left. If one holds certain points of view, one is automatically, de facto, a bigot.
FALSE.

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Yeah, but I'm with Barney Frank here, I don't think one should do that.

It's too bad many on the left in FYM didn't get the same memo Barney got.

<>
What part do you not get?
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Old 11-20-2009, 10:42 PM   #322
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Martha, you seem rather upset most of the time. Perhaps it just the way you express yourself in this forum. I'm not making a value judgment, you can be angry - it just makes it more challenging to have a dialogue with you.
She thinks I disagree with her because I hate feminism, or hate progress, or hate women, or hate equal rights, or hate 'the gays', or 'the blacks', or anyone that isn't part of our great 'white guy' oppressive patriarchical system. Actually, I just disagree with certain points of view. In point of fact, I've disagreed with right wing posters - such as Strongbow, or the late, lamented NBCrusader - at least as vehemently, probably more so, than I ever disagreed with Martha or any of the other liberal leaning posters on here.

I'll take the far left seriously when they take seriously issues such as, for example, why it is that male suicide is so common. Until then, I'll continue calling them out on their double standards.
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Old 11-20-2009, 10:45 PM   #323
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Originally Posted by Diemen View Post
The way you addressed it bothers me.
Diemen, for clarification - is it the manner in which it was addressed that bothers you, or the content? From the rest of your post – I am going to guess content (please let me know if I’m mistaken).

Quote:
Imagine if someone told you this:

"AEON, it is not wrong to be heterosexual. In fact, God made you that way, so it can't be wrong. But if you decide to act on it, if you decide to pursue someone you're interested in, fall in love with that person and want to spend the rest of your life with that person, you are actively choosing to live in sin.
Since I guess you are deciding to depart the secular portion of the question, I will speak to this. I think there are indeed examples of heterosexual desires and relationships that are “sinful” to act out.

Quote:
So rather than try and find happiness in the companionship of a partner like most of us do, you must live the rest of your life resisting any urges to express your sexuality the way the rest of us do, because your sexuality may not be a sin, but expressing it is."

Does that not, on any level at all, register to you as extremely irrational? As extremely unfair?
I believe I answered this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by AEON
It has been my observation - that over time - God's wisdom prevails both personally, and socially
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diemen
Now imagine if someone used that justification to bar you from getting the same protections under the law for a committed, monogamous union between you and the love of your life.
Diemen, I also believed I addressed this as well…

Quote:
Originally Posted by AEON
…I do realize that my opinion is only one in a sea of opinions. And more often than not, when we are discussing activity between two consenting adults, my opinions end where their freedom begins. Because of this, among other things, I have taken a rather libertarian view that the state should no longer be involved in the marriage process.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diemen

Now imagine if you did not believe in God and people still used that justification to deny you legal rights.
Again, with all sincerity, my answer as posted from above…

Quote:
Originally Posted by AEON
I have taken a rather libertarian view that the state should no longer be involved in the marriage process
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Old 11-20-2009, 10:49 PM   #324
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You brought it up.
Strange, I thought I expressed a desire to not bring it up:

Quote:
However, out of respect for those that have called for a "secular" discussion - and the fact it has been covered already by both sides of the argument - I would like to table my personal opinion
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Old 11-20-2009, 10:53 PM   #325
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nevermind. Out of respect for AEON's wishes to keep his personal opinions and beliefs out of this, I'll refrain (frustrating as that may be...).
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Old 11-20-2009, 10:53 PM   #326
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What part do you not get?
Why you label people bigots when they are not.

<>
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Old 11-20-2009, 11:00 PM   #327
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nevermind. Out of respect for AEON's wishes to keep his personal opinions and beliefs out of this, I'll refrain (frustrating as that may be...).
Thank you, Diemen.

I am quite certain at some point in time another debate on the Biblical passages regarding homosexuality will emerge...you'll get your chance at the "red meat"
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Old 11-20-2009, 11:04 PM   #328
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Why you label people bigots when they are not.

<>
I haven't, and this is the last post I will respond to of yours on this subject.
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Old 11-20-2009, 11:11 PM   #329
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Keep the Bible out of my government. Please. It's just some book some people wrote one day.
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Old 11-20-2009, 11:18 PM   #330
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Martha, you seem rather upset most of the time. Perhaps it just the way you express yourself in this forum. I'm not making a value judgment, you can be angry - it just makes it more challenging to have a dialogue with you.
I keep my posts in FYM limited to threads which mean something to me. This topic does mean something to me--a great deal. And it pisses me off when people can be so calm and smug about denying rights to people. In other parts of the forum, where I post much more, I'm actually pleasant. Of course, no one's there advocating destroying marriage in order to keep the homos from doing it.

How would you propose I have a dialogue with someone who thinks that certain members of our society, who have committed no crime, are inferior to others? That they're doing something "wrong" when they express their love. How does one do that?
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