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Old 04-08-2009, 04:54 PM   #91
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would you like to cite your sources?
Here's the latest article I read. There are others.
The New Blacklist

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ever been to a pro-life or pro-choice march? you'll see lots of verbal intimidation. please show me a contentious social issue in which both sides discuss the issue by mutually affirming the worth and value of the other side's argument.
No actually. But you do that unanimously I'm sure. The point of the google maps is to give those that donated pause should there be a next time. "They will know where I live." It sure sounds like intimidation.

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or maybe it's just really unpopular in Hollywood given the fact that most people in the arts work with gay people all the time.

you can assume all you want, but does it surprise you that such a thing would be unpopular amongst the "Hollywood Left"?
Fine, but they should recognize that makes their personal scolding and lecturing as well as any "messages" their products deliver on the matter nothing less than propaganda.
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Old 04-08-2009, 05:01 PM   #92
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Still focusing on the rowdy guys and not the issues.

Kinda makes me wonder if you have anything else to say?
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Old 04-08-2009, 05:01 PM   #93
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Here's the latest article I read. There are others.
The New Blacklist
The Weekly Standard

just pointing that out.

do you think this is in any way comparable to the actual 1950s McCarthy-era blacklist? or is this just hysterical hyperbole?


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No actually. But you do that unanimously I'm sure. The point of the google maps is to give those that donated pause should there be a next time. "They will know where I live." It sure sounds like intimidation.

yes, it's done unanimously. and it's public information. anyone can look it up. i suppose it's tough when the gays get organized, but there is absolutely nothing beyond the pale here, nothing illegal, and nothing that hasn't been done before.


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Fine, but they should recognize that makes their personal scolding and lecturing as well as any "messages" their products deliver on the matter nothing less than propaganda.

so it's the "uppity" thing again. that's really what it seems to be boiling down to. i understand that you don't like being called a bigot or homophobic. i'm sure segregationists didn't like to be called racists either.
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Old 04-08-2009, 05:02 PM   #94
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Tradition don't mean shit!!!
Spoken like a true progressive including the obligatory profanity.
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Old 04-08-2009, 05:03 PM   #95
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I buried my grandmother today.

She lived 88 very excellent years on this planet. The last few were hard, but overall she had a good life and a good family. She was one of 6 children, born on a farm and only finished the 6th grade. She was literate and liked to read (especially the tabloids), and very pious. She prayed 5 rosaries every day, never missed a weekly mass so long as she was healthy enough to attend. She buried her husband 26 years ago, never remarried, and instead moved in with her son and baked anything her grandchildren wanted. She loved the old Pope, she had a cherished rosary from Fatima, and while she was very proud that her grandchildren were successful, she would have been perfectly happy if we were less ambitious and more traditional (yes, I bet she's still hoping that I make an honest woman of myself...).

I remember distinctly when gay marriage was an issue here. One of her sisters-in-law was talking about how she's always voted for the Liberals but won't this time because they're for "gays marrying, can you imagine such a thing?" And my grandmother's response was "well, Anne, I don't think they want to marry us...."

That's my bright line test. If you fail it, my opinion of you is very low.
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Old 04-08-2009, 05:05 PM   #96
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^Your grandma rocks.
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Old 04-08-2009, 05:13 PM   #97
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INDY must have me on ignore. Could someone else ask him those questions again?
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Old 04-08-2009, 05:16 PM   #98
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Spoken like a true progressive including the obligatory profanity.
Where did "tradition" play with interracial marriage, women's rights, or any other social issues where conservatives have been on the wrong side of history?

And my one four letter word isn't offensive at all, not compared to some of the comparisons and leaps of logic you make...
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Old 04-08-2009, 05:17 PM   #99
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Spoken like a true progressive including the obligatory profanity.


i think the point is that tradition also gave us racism, sexism, slavery, genocide, etc. that while tradition is nice and can be looked to in order to give some a sense of structure, meaning, and purpose, deference to tradition simply because it's tradition is little more than a Flat Earth way of viewing the world.

we burned witches at the stake out of tradition.
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Old 04-08-2009, 05:45 PM   #100
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Where did "tradition" play with interracial marriage, women's rights,
Iowa's had a pretty strong tradition of being on the advanced side of these two things.
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Old 04-08-2009, 05:59 PM   #101
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i think the point is that tradition also gave us racism, sexism, slavery, genocide, etc. that while tradition is nice and can be looked to in order to give some a sense of structure, meaning, and purpose, deference to tradition simply because it's tradition is little more than a Flat Earth way of viewing the world.
Funny way to make that point.

Conservatives are for change and reform. Not the change for change's sake, tradition is shit, worry about the consequences later kind of change. But prudent, informed change. Change that improves society--thus preserving it.

If I thought redefining marriage would improve society I would favor it.
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Old 04-08-2009, 06:03 PM   #102
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Funny way to make that point.

Conservatives are for change and reform. Not the change for change's sake, tradition is shit, worry about the consequences later kind of change. But prudent, informed change. Change that improves society--thus preserving it.

If I thought redefining marriage would improve society I would favor it.


you're for change we can believe in? cool. i don't disagree with how you've presented change above.

another question: do you think "redefining" marriage will worsen society? if so, how?

another question: do you only approve "change" when it can be proved that it will "improve" society? can you site examples of this? how do you know if something will pass the improvement test?

am i to take your above position as an endorsement of the NRO editorial where gay people are told, essentially, to go to hell because their relationships offer nothing of value to society?
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Old 04-08-2009, 06:08 PM   #103
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also, wasn't the whole raison d'etre of the life of, you know, Christ, to change how people thought?

that Rebel from Nazareth.
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Old 04-08-2009, 06:10 PM   #104
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Conservatives are for change and reform.
Can you show me anywhere in any conservative platform where they've been about change or reform?

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But prudent, informed change. Change that improves society--thus preserving it.
I'm sorry but in all honesty I've never seen anything truly informed when it comes to this issue from the conservative side, and that's not bias speaking, because I can acknowledge when I see informed opposition, I just have never seen it concerning this issue.

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If I thought redefining marriage would improve society I would favor it.
But it will improve other people's society and not effect yours, yet that isn't good enough for you to favor it. You've spent years in here trying to show how it will change your society and failed with every turn. And it came down to tradition and a word.


How long will you have to look at Iowa in order to make your informed decision if it indeed harms society or not?
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Old 04-08-2009, 06:11 PM   #105
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also, wasn't the whole raison d'etre of the life of, you know, Christ, to change how people thought?

that Rebel from Nazareth.
The sad thing is, if Jesus walked into the average American Evangelical mega-church today, they'd kick him out for being too "radical".
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