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Old 11-13-2009, 01:21 AM   #811
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My mind is as boggled as Irvine's. Jesus said, "he who is without sin, cast the first stone," .
Are you casting stones at those casting stones?
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Old 11-13-2009, 01:22 AM   #812
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Neither is a right to healthcare but whaddya gonna do.
And this is what I missed most about this place...

Did NB Crusader ever come back here?
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Old 11-13-2009, 01:46 AM   #813
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No NB did not.
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Old 11-13-2009, 02:15 AM   #814
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No NB did not.
While I don't know the details on why he left - I enjoyed his posts.
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Old 11-13-2009, 07:47 AM   #815
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You said marriage is a fundamental human right, but you also agreed (I think) that states can determine the age when to grant this right (16,18...whatever). It seems to follow that you or okay with allowing states to determine when, who, and how human rights are granted.

Usually, fundamental human rights, from my understanding, are something government can neither grant nor deny (only protect). So you are either claiming that marriage is not necessary a human right, or that human rights CAN be granted or denied by the government.
This is quite a bit of stretch from "I haven't given it much thought" and "it's arbitrary but needed". And even if I did say that the state can determine the "when" I said nothing about the who and how.

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The reason I support it is NOT because I fear the church's influence on the state - no, I fear the state's influence on the church.
I find this fear to be irrational. I do not support the state or federal government forcing churches to hold gay marriages if they don't believe in them. The church has the right to deny any couple not to get married in their church.

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Neither is a right to healthcare but whaddya gonna do.
Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness...

For many in order to have life, they need healthcare, they pretty much go hand in hand.
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Old 11-13-2009, 08:01 AM   #816
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Some chiropractor somewhere is making wheelbarrows full of money on the folks who still do all the backflips and tumbles just to disallow two guys who love each other more than anything to marry. I don't know why it's so damn hard to do. We always ending talking up about children getting married instead of consenting adults. What the hell?
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Old 11-13-2009, 08:18 AM   #817
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The evolution of the argument against gay marriage is a funny one.

The majority of posters in here and conservatives alike start out with the Bible argument, once you "convince" them the Bible doesn't have any place in making secular law they turn to the slippery slope argument.

The slippery slope argument is that if you allow two women to marry then my neighbor is going to want to marry a goat. As soon as that argument is shattered, which takes all of one sentence then they move on to the dictionary argument.

The dictionary argument is, well this is the definition, this is what the dictionary says, I'm just trying to uphold the traditional definition. Then when you prove that definitions have changed and evolved over the years they call you "weeslely".

At this point they get frustrated and they return to one of the previous arguments hoping they find something they missed before. So I guess we're now back to men who want to marry goats...
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Old 11-13-2009, 08:43 AM   #818
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Old 11-13-2009, 08:48 AM   #819
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Honestly the arguments against legalizing gay marriage are unproductive wastes of time because the people putting them forward must realize at this point (short of being really stupid) that the enemy they are up against is time, that time waits for no man, and that thanks to the progressivism of the younger generation, this "fight" has already been lost.

Someday their grandchildren will wonder who they were.
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Old 11-13-2009, 08:52 AM   #820
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Honestly the arguments against legalizing gay marriage are unproductive wastes of time because the people putting them forward must realize at this point (short of being really stupid) that the enemy they are up against is time, that time waits for no man, and that thanks to the progressivism of the younger generation, this "fight" has already been lost.

Someday their grandchildren will wonder who they were.
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Old 11-13-2009, 10:10 AM   #821
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Someday their grandchildren will wonder who they were.
I hope so.
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Old 11-13-2009, 10:15 AM   #822
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Are you casting stones at those casting stones?
I don't get what you mean here.

What I meant was here is the Church being judgmental towards homosexuals, and one of Jesus' most famous sayings was "he who is without sin..."
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Old 11-13-2009, 10:20 AM   #823
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I think he's just trying to create a circular argument. They're judging, but you called them out on their judgement so now you're judging, therefore no one can ever really use that scripture... that's my guess.
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Old 11-13-2009, 10:28 AM   #824
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I hope so.
And I hope that you also realize that it almost certainly won't be in a positive light either...
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Old 11-13-2009, 10:30 AM   #825
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And I hope that you also realize that it almost certainly won't be in a positive light either...
Sure it will. Just look at all those people back in the day who tried to keep the races pure. We all think they were the heroes. They were just trying to keep things the way the Bible intended. What was the harm?
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