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Old 05-13-2009, 10:12 PM   #391
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Strengthened "deadbeat dad" laws.

Argued for school vouchers so the children of single-mothers can have the type of education our president's children have.

Removed the marriage penalty from the tax code to disincentify divorce for strictly financial reasons.

Built child credits into the law to help low income families including single-parent households.

With Bill Clinton reformed welfare in an attempt to end the cycle of dependency which is the underlying cause of the problem.

Not to mention private organizations and churches that conservatives give their time and money to that help single-mothers.

What we're not keen on doing is just throwing money at the problem and calling it "compassion."


first, it's funny to think that school vouchers will mean that All Children Go To Sidwell, and all of your suggestions are about money, and i'm not sure how people on the left are just throwing money at a problem and calling it "compassion" -- seems to me that's a criticism of Bush.

but, putting that aside, aren't all these things far more productive than calling Adam and Steve a "threat"?
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Old 05-13-2009, 10:34 PM   #392
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No, you haven't, because the former is just lip service, whereas you're bringing the instruments of law to bear on the other. You've done nothing at all to actually PREVENT unmarried or divorced heterosexuals from becoming or remaining parents. Of course any such efforts would have ethically unconscionable results, and when it's heterosexuals we're talking about you're able to see that.
Many states have laws against artificial insemination or in vitro fertilization of unmarried women or without the permission of the husband in married women.

Ease of divorce varies from state to state.

Anyway, some of us aren't looking for more "instruments of law," just a rollback to a modicum of societal disapproval with a smidgen of shame thrown in when it comes to divorce and out-of-wedlock births. And definitely less governmental incentives that encourage and subsidize such behavior. And we'd really be happy with the return of a little "Johnny strike up the band" to the ideal of one father and one mother as the best family arrangement for both children and society.

Against the current of the pop culture I know.
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Old 05-13-2009, 10:39 PM   #393
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And we'd really be happy with the return of a little "Johnny strike up the band" to the ideal of one father and one mother as the best family arrangement for both children and society.

Against the current of the pop culture I know.
This is a summary of everything that's wrong with conservatives, right there in two sentences.
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Old 05-13-2009, 10:40 PM   #394
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Anyway, some of us aren't looking for more "instruments of law," just a rollback to a modicum of societal disapproval with a smidgen of shame thrown in when it comes to divorce and out-of-wedlock births.
Do you really think shaming their parents -- and them -- helps these kids? Do you really think being an outcast -- because that's what you are advocating, no matter what you call it -- is good for the kids in these situations? Honestly, do you? Really??
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Old 05-13-2009, 11:04 PM   #395
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Do you really think shaming their parents -- and them -- helps these kids? Do you really think being an outcast -- because that's what you are advocating, no matter what you call it -- is good for the kids in these situations? Honestly, do you? Really??
I think everyone realizes some divorces are for the best but... if a little shame means parents work harder at relationships and less children go through the agony that divorce brings, yes. If more children can have the blessing of a loving father, yes.

You dance around one good point however. I hesitate to use the term "illegitimate" because we really shouldn't stigmatize the children. They don't choose to be born into less than ideal situations.

There aren't any illegitimate children, certainly not in the eyes of God.
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Old 05-13-2009, 11:06 PM   #396
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Many states have laws against artificial insemination or in vitro fertilization of unmarried women
Pretty outrageous.

Are these women also not permitted to have sex?
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Old 05-13-2009, 11:32 PM   #397
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I fly them in to CA, its the least I can do.
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Old 05-13-2009, 11:46 PM   #398
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This is a summary of everything that's wrong with conservatives, right there in two sentences.
Wow, I didn't know I was so succinct.

Yet Noam Chomsky has been trying to explain "everything that's wrong with conservatives" in book after book, article after article, for 40 years.
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Old 05-13-2009, 11:53 PM   #399
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Many states have laws against artificial insemination or in vitro fertilization of unmarried women or without the permission of the husband in married women.
The former proscription is the only thing you listed that might qualify as actual legislation to prevent 'nontraditional families'. Can you give examples of some states whose laws actually specify no AID or IVF for unmarried women? Laws requiring the husband's consent aren't the same thing because they wouldn't apply if there was no husband.
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Old 05-14-2009, 12:00 AM   #400
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Wow, I didn't know I was so succinct.

Yet Noam Chomsky has been trying to explain "everything that's wrong with conservatives" in book after book, article after article, for 40 years.
I simply mean the whole attitude that liberal viewpoints are nothing more than fads of popular culture, which is a childish attitude to have.
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Old 05-14-2009, 08:48 AM   #401
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S
Argued for school vouchers so the children of single-mothers can have the type of education our president's children have.



With Bill Clinton reformed welfare in an attempt to end the cycle of dependency which is the underlying cause of the problem.

Further details are needed on these two. Gutting public education doesn't serve anyone, and providing corporations with indentured servants hardly helps children flourish.
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Old 05-14-2009, 10:32 AM   #402
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Many states have laws against artificial insemination or in vitro fertilization of unmarried women or without the permission of the husband in married women.

Ease of divorce varies from state to state.

Anyway, some of us aren't looking for more "instruments of law," just a rollback to a modicum of societal disapproval with a smidgen of shame thrown in when it comes to divorce and out-of-wedlock births. And definitely less governmental incentives that encourage and subsidize such behavior. And we'd really be happy with the return of a little "Johnny strike up the band" to the ideal of one father and one mother as the best family arrangement for both children and society.

Against the current of the pop culture I know.


what does any of this have to do with two people seeking legal recognition for their relationship?

i do think you have a blinkered view of divorce -- that it only happens because selfish Mommy and selfish Daddy want to fuck other people, so off to daycare with you, Johnny! sometimes, Daddy beats the crap out of Mommy, and sometimes, Mommy and Daddy are so miserable and fight so much all the time that everyone is actually much happier with them under separate roofs.

and, as an aside, i've been told i'd make a wonderful mother.
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Old 05-14-2009, 11:08 AM   #403
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Many states have laws against artificial insemination or in vitro fertilization of unmarried women or without the permission of the husband in married women.
We need a double-take smiley.
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Old 05-14-2009, 11:15 AM   #404
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We need a double-take smiley.


this reminds me of a time when i was marching in a pro-choice rally here in DC, and i was walking with two women, and they were holding signs, and an anti-choice protester pointed at one of the women and started shouting, "WHERE IS YOUR HUSBAND?!? DOES YOUR HUSBAND KNOW YOU ARE HERE?!?! WHERE IS YOUR HUSBAND!?!? HE WOULD BE ASHAMED OF YOU!!!"

it was kind of amazing. and we stopped for a moment and realized that, he was right, she shouldn't be doing things without her husbands permission. like driving, or even voting. sure, she has the right to vote, but he should at least have discussed her options with her and helped her to make the right decision about who to vote for. so we promptly left the rally and went home and baked brownies.

of course, she wasn't married. but, you know, she should have been.
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Old 05-14-2009, 11:17 AM   #405
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Anyway, some of us aren't looking for more "instruments of law," just a rollback to a modicum of societal disapproval with a smidgen of shame thrown in when it comes to divorce and out-of-wedlock births.
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