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Old 04-21-2009, 02:42 PM   #256
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but, as ever INDY, it's always really good to stand up for "traditional marriage" by linking to a website of a thrice-married right wing Republican who dumped his first wife in 1981 as she was in a hospital bed dying of cancer, and who left his second wife for a much younger staffer.

because i guess that's how right wing Republicans have traditionally treated their marriages.
It was the only one to feature the Foxnews video exclusively. Here is the original link I had.

Miss California Gay Marriage Perez Hilton

Interesting to note the CNN and MSNBC videos fail to show the "she's a dumb bitch" clip.

Here is another page I found.
Miss USA California Gay Marriage Video With Perez Hilton - poponthepop.com

Note Miss Prejean is labeled as "homophobic' in the first sentence. Are we surprised? And how about these bons mots.

Quote:
Surprisingly Carrie's response seemed to draw applause from the audience. A disappointed and visibly upset Perez Hilton was not amused and neither were some audience members. Scott Ihrig, a gay Miss USA pageant attendee, weighed in, "It's ugly. I think it's ridiculous that she got first runner-up. That is not the value of 95 percent of the people in this audience. Look around this audience and tell me how many gay men there are."

Conservatives are gonna love Miss California, and they can have her! I hope her "opposite marriage" ends in divorce when her husband leaves her for his gay lover!
Classy.
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Old 04-21-2009, 03:03 PM   #257
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Classy.



wow. i guess you've proved -- via the quote of one individual on one blog that i've never heard of -- that you're really the virtuous underdog in this battle and that your opponents, despite being only 5% of the population, are secretly powerful and are working to fundamentally change the fabric of society and remake it in their own image.

luckily, the gays already have their own ghettos. so the rest should be easy.

and, yes, i think the only explanation for any opposition to gay marriage is homophobia. and, no, i don't think that homophobia is any better than racism or sexism. it was a homophobic comment. people are allowed to make those, and Perez Hilton can think she's a dumb bitch if he wants. as a judge, however, he entirely overstepped propriety (and possibly the rules), and as such should not be asked back as a judge.



(and if you go to, say, The Advocate website and read the comments section, you'll find that the vast majority of commenters defended her right to her opinion, and most think Perez Hilton is a douchebag)
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Old 04-21-2009, 03:25 PM   #258
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INDY, at least you got your questions answered. Many of us are still waiting for answers to the questions we asked several pages ago.
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Old 04-21-2009, 03:26 PM   #259
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Second, which side is it again that spews bigotry and hatred?

I don't know. You tell me.
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Old 04-21-2009, 05:07 PM   #260
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I wonder if Jesus would condone gay marriage? I don't know, he never said one word about homosexuality.

I wonder if he would condone torture? Well he talked about loving your enemies, turning the other cheek, and he placed the ear of the soldier (that wanted to torture him) back on before going into custody...

Things that make you go
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Old 04-21-2009, 06:00 PM   #261
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Everytime anyone gives Perez Hilton any attention, an angel gets its wings ripped off. I can't believe he's become some sort of spokesperson for this story - it makes me want to bang my head against a sharp, immobile object.
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Old 04-21-2009, 07:06 PM   #262
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I wonder if he would condone torture?

Things that make you go
That's an easy one. He seemed to be into it.

Did you see Passion?
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Old 04-21-2009, 08:13 PM   #263
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That's an easy one. He seemed to be into it.

Did you see Passion?



purity through pain.
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Old 04-21-2009, 08:34 PM   #264
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wow. i guess you've proved -- via the quote of one individual on one blog that i've never heard of -- that you're really the virtuous underdog in this battle and that your opponents, despite being only 5% of the population, are secretly powerful and are working to fundamentally change the fabric of society and remake it in their own image.

luckily, the gays already have their own ghettos. so the rest should be easy.

and, yes, i think the only explanation for any opposition to gay marriage is homophobia. and, no, i don't think that homophobia is any better than racism or sexism. it was a homophobic comment. people are allowed to make those, and Perez Hilton can think she's a dumb bitch if he wants. as a judge, however, he entirely overstepped propriety (and possibly the rules), and as such should not be asked back as a judge.



(and if you go to, say, The Advocate website and read the comments section, you'll find that the vast majority of commenters defended her right to her opinion, and most think Perez Hilton is a douchebag)
Oh, I'm quite sure we could find some truly bigoted remarks by defenders of traditional marriage towards gays.

I guess my point is -- we would expect that from us "troglodytes." Your position, however, is supposed to be the enlightened, erudite, lofty, righteous view. So, "what up" with the automatic labeling of all opponents, the inevitable obscenity-laced epitaph throwing and overall general lack of civility and respect?

Is it my turn to say "are you becoming the monster in order to defeat the monster"?
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Old 04-21-2009, 08:42 PM   #265
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Oh, I'm quite sure we could find some truly bigoted remarks by defenders of traditional marriage towards gays.

I guess my point is -- we would expect that from us "troglodytes." Your position, however, is supposed to be the enlightened, erudite, lofty, righteous view. So, "what up" with the automatic labeling of all opponents, the inevitable obscenity-laced epitaph throwing and overall general lack of civility and respect?

Is it my turn to say "are you becoming the monster in order to defeat the monster"?


me? no.

i will absolutely say that creating a moral distinction between a gay couple and a straight couple on the basis of sexual orientation is bigoted. end of story for me.

i have not defended Perez Hilton's comments. but trust me. Perez has probably been called much worse in his life by straight people (and not just celebrities he rips on).

if he's all you've got left, then you've lost.
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Old 04-21-2009, 09:26 PM   #266
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me? no.

i will absolutely say that creating a moral distinction between a gay couple and a straight couple on the basis of sexual orientation is bigoted. end of story for me.
Forget moral distinction. It's bigoted, I guess, to even imply the obvious physical distinctions:

That only the union between a male and a female can naturally create life while passing on genes. Not an unimportant detail regarding the maintanace of sociatal stability.

That it's most advantagous for children to be raised by a mother AND father. Something obvious to all previous generations -- sadly becoming another casualty of value-neutrality.

In the name of progress of course.
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I have not defended Perez Hilton's comments. but trust me. Perez has probably been called much worse in his life by straight people (and not just celebrities he rips on).

if he's all you've got left, then you've lost.
I had never heard of Perez Hilton until yesterday and if not for this thread I wouldn't have given 2 seconds of thought to his actions.
He's an idiot but he's an outspoken same-sex advocate which makes him, in the cyperspace of this thread, your idiot.
Thus the tweaking.
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Old 04-21-2009, 09:38 PM   #267
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That only the union between a male and a female can naturally create life while passing on genes. Not an unimportant detail regarding the maintanace of sociatal stability.
The weakness of using this as a legal argument--as the Iowa Court pointed out--is that by ignoring the presence of heterosexual marriages which cannot or will not ever produce children, laws formally restricting marriage to 'a man and a woman' under this justification have the effect of singling out one group for penalization (for being unable to produce children) on the basis of an argument which applies to many others as well. Ditto for justifications like 'every child needs a mother and a father.'
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Old 04-21-2009, 10:08 PM   #268
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Forget moral distinction. It's bigoted, I guess, to even imply the obvious physical distinctions:

That only the union between a male and a female can naturally create life while passing on genes. Not an unimportant detail regarding the maintanace of sociatal stability.

That it's most advantagous for children to be raised by a mother AND father. Something obvious to all previous generations -- sadly becoming another casualty of value-neutrality.

In the name of progress of course.


i had no idea that having one's own biological children was a precondition for marriage.

further, the mother AND a father is a distortion. the only things studies have show is that children tend do better with TWO (good) parents rather than one. said studies were done comparing heterosex households. there's no demonstrable difference between children raised by same-gender parents than with opposite-sex parents. there simply isn't. but that's moot, anyway, because no one is required to have children. nor should they be.

and the "previous generations" comment is just silly. notions of child rearing are quite different today than they were 100 years ago, let alone 500 or 2,000 years ago.


Quote:
I had never heard of Perez Hilton until yesterday and if not for this thread I wouldn't have given 2 seconds of thought to his actions.
He's an idiot but he's an outspoken same-sex advocate which makes him, in the cyperspace of this thread, your idiot.
Thus the tweaking.

and you linked to a thrice-married serial adulterer who dumped his first wife as she lay dying of cancer.
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Old 04-21-2009, 10:12 PM   #269
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i had no idea that having one's own biological children was a precondition for marriage.

Yikes. That's not a law here in the US yet, is it?

I may have to get me one of those adult baby-dolls. ew.
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Old 04-21-2009, 10:16 PM   #270
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Yikes. That's not a law here in the US yet, is it?

I may have to get me one of those adult baby-dolls. ew.


i'm surprised the government hasn't forcibly divorced the two of you.

no biological children, no marriage.

jumping off this, and since i've offered up many clear answers to clear questions, i'm going to ask another question:


1. what is the moral difference between Irvine/Memphis and Martha/Steve?

be specific.
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