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Old 04-12-2009, 05:54 PM   #196
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Thank you for pointing this out. So called libertarians who would infringe on the human rights of others irk me. That's the antithesis of libertarianism, and I'm not sure why some fail to recognize that.


sinners are most assuredly not "others." they do not deserve to have their sins protected by law.
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Old 04-12-2009, 06:17 PM   #197
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I didn't see where VintagePunK said anything about sin.


Sin is an absolute fraud. It does not exist.
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Old 04-12-2009, 06:20 PM   #198
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Sin is an absolute fraud. It does not exist.
I came to that conclusion myself some years ago.

It's liberating.
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Old 04-12-2009, 06:31 PM   #199
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Of course there is proper and correct behavior.

There is no magic, invisable being to obsolved me of harming myself and others.
My choices matter more now. It is liberating and refreshing.


It seems many religious people operate with this little "cheat sheet" attitude.
Like they have an automatic-pass guanantee.
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Old 04-12-2009, 07:00 PM   #200
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It seems many religious people operate with this little "cheat sheet" attitude.
Like they have an automatic-pass guanantee.

Especially when they're the ones who get to decide what constitutes sin.
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Old 04-12-2009, 07:24 PM   #201
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Of course there is proper and correct behavior.

There is no magic, invisable being to obsolved me of harming myself and others.
My choices matter more now. It is liberating and refreshing.
Agreed. And even if there was an invisible being who dictated things such as this (I believe there isn't), it should have no bearing whatsoever on the politically declared human rights of others, because not everyone will believe in the same invisible being or have the same belief system dictated by their invisible being of choice. So that brings us back to tradition, and whether or not to uphold the current anti-gay marriage laws. There are many, many examples of society changing its politically imposed rules as society became more enlightened and aware of the wrongs they were committing against groups. The least harm principle should apply here. Is it harmful to society for gay couples to marry? As societies who allow this have shown, no, it's not harmful, not in the least. But is it harmful to gay couples who want to marry not to be able to, to not have the same rights as their hetero counterparts? Absolutely it is.

Logic ftw.
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Old 04-12-2009, 07:33 PM   #202
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Logic, schmogic.
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Old 04-12-2009, 07:38 PM   #203
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It seems many religious people operate with this little "cheat sheet" attitude.
Like they have an automatic-pass guanantee.
I have a good friend who is quite religious and generally votes along with the right, but isn't really politically driven. His answers for why a lot of things should be the way they are is "because God wants it that way." I really wonder whether he ever actually gave any independent thought to something like gay marriage at all.
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Old 04-12-2009, 07:59 PM   #204
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His answers for why a lot of things should be the way they are is "because God wants it that way." I really wonder whether he ever actually gave any independent thought to something like gay marriage at all.
Religious conformity doesn't leave much room for independent thought which is probably fine for many conventionally religious people who would otherwise be too lazy to think beyond what they're told. That's not a complete slam, just something I've also observed quite a bit.
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Old 04-12-2009, 08:09 PM   #205
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Religious conformity doesn't leave much room for independent thought which is probably fine for many conventionally religious people who would otherwise be too lazy to think beyond what they're told.
It can be fear as well, not just laziness.
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Old 04-12-2009, 08:18 PM   #206
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It can be fear as well, not just laziness.
Actually fear is probably much more often the case, you're right.
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Old 04-12-2009, 10:09 PM   #207
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this is offensive to me.

go ahead, call me a sinner.

if you need to retain that little bit of assumed superiority over me using your own self-serving religion, then all i can do is feel pity at your small mindedness.

how greatly disappointing you must be to that Rebel From Nazareth.

I apologize if my post offended you.

I guess, in your view, I am narrow minded.

I am a believer in that Rebel from Nazareth
and I believe the scriptures teach that this world system will increase in sin.

And keep increasing in sin

Until we have faces



Take care
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Old 04-12-2009, 10:19 PM   #208
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The Rebel from Nazareth never spoke of gay marriage. In fact he spoke of love, and he who was free of sin cast the first stone.

I see a lot of stones casted by folks who have logs in their own eyes...

Today Jesus wept.
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Old 04-12-2009, 10:20 PM   #209
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I didn't get the impression he was referring specifically to gay marriage. If that even matters.
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Old 04-12-2009, 10:23 PM   #210
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A rather weak non-apology, you ought to be more explicit, do you not care that Irvine is going to go to hell?
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