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Old 08-09-2003, 10:11 AM   #16
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Originally posted by melon
Are there provisions for annullment in the Episopal Church?

Do you see a Scriptural basis for annullment? Or is it a way to create an "acceptable" divorce?
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Old 08-16-2003, 08:29 AM   #17
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Originally posted by melon


Honestly, people aren't perfect. In an ideal world, there would be no wars, people would get married once, have perfect children, etc. Needless to say, that will never happen. Period.

I'm not saying that religion should whimsically change its standards. At the same time, though, I think religion is unrealistic about its expectations, and, in a quest for perfection, has often created even more hatred and violence and division in its place.

Melon
Right...but if there's *one* thing in this life that you should try your damnedest not to screw up, I'd say it's marriage.
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Old 08-16-2003, 04:19 PM   #18
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Originally posted by nbcrusader
Do you see a Scriptural basis for annullment? Or is it a way to create an "acceptable" divorce?
Well, don't start on this topic. This is one topic that Protestantism has completely mangled in its favor. Due to the mistranslation of "one" word in Matthew from the original King James Version, people seem to think they can get divorced, due to marital infidelity. It's incorrect.

"It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery." -- Matthew 5:31-32 (KJV 1611)

"It was also said, 'Whoever divorces his wife must give her a bill of divorce.' But I say to you, whoever divorces his wife (unless the marriage is unlawful) causes her to commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery." -- Matthew 5:31-32 (Catholic NAB 1991)

Such a divergent interpretation calls for analysis of the contentious word in question--"porneia" (literally "blood mixing"). The Gospel of Matthew is still mostly a Jewish Christian text, and this particular passage refers to Leviticus 18:6-18, which were prohibitions against "incest." Marriages of that sort were regarded as incest ("porneia"), but some rabbis allowed Gentile converts to Judaism who had contracted such marriages to remain in them. Matthew's "exceptive clause" is against such permissiveness for Gentile converts to Christianity. There is a similar prohibition of "porneia" in Acts 15:20, 29. In this interpretation, the clause constitutes no exception to the absolute prohibition of divorce when the marriage is lawful.

Needless to say, all of this will fall on deaf ears, so think of this the next time "Christians" level insults at homosexuals. Where is all the mass protests from the Christian "Right" to ban civil divorce? If there is *one* thing in this life to not screw up...well, heterosexuals have done a great job of trashing it on their own. Rather than blaming gays and feminists for all their problems, maybe it's about time they looked in the mirror more.

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Old 08-16-2003, 06:11 PM   #19
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Well, setting aside your narrow definition of "pornia", do you believe in a doctrine of annullment?
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Old 08-16-2003, 07:46 PM   #20
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Well, setting aside your narrow definition of "pornia", do you believe in a doctrine of annullment?
Yes, I do. However, I believe in its original, more narrow definition. If you get into a marriage, where one or the two sincerely lied (e.g., one of the two is gay and just tried to pretend it wasn't there to fit in) or the marriage earnestly failed within a short span of time (think a couple weeks or so), then, yes, I believe that a marriage may not have taken place after all. A contract not done in good faith is not a contract at all.

Needless to say, like many doctrines, they are abused. At the same time, however, to assume that humans are perfect and can know that the person that they are marrying will last a lifetime...well, that may just be too much to burden on humanity. Before divorce, what did we have? Happy marriages? No, just long and unhappy ones with profuse adultery. Ireland is plenty of an example of that; divorces only more recently were permitted to happen, but only after a ten-year separation. I'd like to think that we can be as perfect as God, and I'm sure many of us earnestly strive. But we all know that we will never succeed.

If I get "married" (in whatever capacity), I will do it to last a lifetime. However, as we all know, what we hope for and what actually happens is a totally different story. However, sad to say, I don't think many take an approach this seriously. Reality TV marriage shows is enough evidence of that.

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Old 08-16-2003, 11:56 PM   #21
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Originally posted by melon
Yes, I do. However, I believe in its original, more narrow definition. If you get into a marriage, where one or the two sincerely lied (e.g., one of the two is gay and just tried to pretend it wasn't there to fit in) or the marriage earnestly failed within a short span of time (think a couple weeks or so), then, yes, I believe that a marriage may not have taken place after all. A contract not done in good faith is not a contract at all.
Sounds reasonable to me.

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