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Old 06-22-2006, 04:59 PM   #76
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Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen


It "feels good" for Irvine to be the person that he is, not to deny that in order to be considered acceptable by anyone or any group. Sorry but you really have no right to tell him otherwise, no one does.

My "Christian walk" led me to Jesus as the ultimate source of love and empathy. What he gave me when I was at the lowest point in my life (and what He continues to give me every day) made me want to give the same to others who feel they are "outcasts" for whatever reason. And I believe that is what He demands of us. There is a reason that Jesus sought out the "outcasts".
Love and empathy is not the same as saying "if it feels good - do it." That is quite contrary to what Jesus taught. And Jesus tells us specifically to deny ourselves.

And believe me, I am the outcasts in today's culture. The above posts in reply to mine is the majority opinion. But I don't worry too much about that.
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Old 06-22-2006, 05:06 PM   #77
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Originally posted by AEON

Love and empathy is not the same as saying "if it feels good - do it." That is quite contrary to what Jesus taught. And Jesus tells us specifically to deny ourselves.
Well I think it's quite presumptuous of you (to put it nicely) to say that Irvine (or any other homosexual person) lives his life according to the premise of "if it feels good do it". I think perhaps there are many many more heterosexuals who live their lives by that premise. Even some God fearing ones.

I think he just wants to be who he is, and what do you know about his personal life and how he conducts it? My guess is nothing, other than what he reveals here if you read it.

Jesus taught us to do many things other than to deny ourselves. I think they're even in The Bible.

And you are certainly in no way an outcast in the way that homosexuals still are in today's world. For example, have you ever wanted to kill yourself because you are not being allowed to be who you are?
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Old 06-22-2006, 05:26 PM   #78
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Originally posted by AEON


Love and empathy is not the same as saying "if it feels good - do it." That is quite contrary to what Jesus taught. And Jesus tells us specifically to deny ourselves.


but i just told you that i am in love with my boyfriend, and that has given me joy, and then you told me that was nothing more than "if it feels good do it."

which is it?
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Old 06-22-2006, 05:50 PM   #79
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but i just told you that i am in love with my boyfriend, and that has given me joy, and then you told me that was nothing more than "if it feels good do it."

which is it?
Just because you are in love and you feel joy does not, in itself, mean you can act on your desires.

That is according the Bible. The world teaches something very different.
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Old 06-22-2006, 05:51 PM   #80
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Just because you are in love and you feel joy does not, in itself, mean you can act on your desires.

That is according the Bible. The world teaches something very different.


so i have to live life without romantic love simply because i am gay?
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Old 06-22-2006, 06:07 PM   #81
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so i have to live life without romantic love simply because i am gay?
Why do you consider romantic love such a supreme necessity? Of the types of love mentioned in the New Testament, this is considered the lowest form of love below Agape (divine, self sacrificing love) and Phileo (brotherly, friendly love). It is considered lowest because it is usually temporary and usually leads to hurt and confusion. There are so many ways to find joy and happiness outside of romantic love.

Today's culture teaches that Romantic Love is the ULTIMATE goal. Movies, songs, and books are all claiming this as the prize above all prizes. However, romantic love by design is temporary and is not that worthy of a pursuit in the grand scheme of things. Even Bono calls out today’s culture in the song Miracle Drug when he sings "I've had enough of romantic love, I'd give it up."

I cannot fully understand your dilemma regarding your desire romantic fulfillment versus spiritual fulfillment. Personally, I think it is more important to choose the latter. We are only alive on earth for a short period of time, but we eternity to look forward to. What we do in this life has eternal consequences.
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Old 06-22-2006, 06:20 PM   #82
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Why do you consider romantic love such a supreme necessity? Of the types of love mentioned in the New Testament, this is considered the lowest form of love
Where did you get this from? Seems interesting that minsters say quite the opposite during wedding ceremonies...


Quote:
Originally posted by AEON


I cannot fully understand your dilemma regarding your desire romantic fulfillment versus spiritual fulfillment. Personally, I think it is more important to choose the latter. We are only alive on earth for a short period of time, but we eternity to look forward to. What we do in this life has eternal consequences.
Who said he's doing this versus his spiritual fullfillment?
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Old 06-22-2006, 06:24 PM   #83
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I know, I don't know whether to laugh or cry when people use this as their argument.

And so much of Paul's referring to homosexuality is based on Leviticus.
You must be a cut and paste Christian too...
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Old 06-22-2006, 06:34 PM   #84
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Why do you consider romantic love such a supreme necessity? Of the types of love mentioned in the New Testament, this is considered the lowest form of love below Agape (divine, self sacrificing love) and Phileo (brotherly, friendly love). It is considered lowest because it is usually temporary and usually leads to hurt and confusion. There are so many ways to find joy and happiness outside of romantic love.


but you'd never ask a heterosexual to do this. at least you're being honest: if you're gay, you're supposed to be a priest, or something akin to it, a Buddhist monk, maybe.

so i'm not allowed to be fully human, to love and be loved, to have a family, to raise a child, to do any of these things based upon the simple fact that i am emotionally and physically attracted to members of my same gender.

might it also be possible that i would be better able to have a life filled with Agape (which i am quite familiar with on an intellectual level) and Pileo love if i also had romantic love? why pit one form against the other?
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Old 06-22-2006, 06:43 PM   #85
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I will let my grandparents, married 60 years next spring that their love is the lowest form of love.

It must be temporary.

They probably should not have had sex, to demonstrate how much they love each other. Instead they cheapened it.
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Old 06-22-2006, 07:01 PM   #86
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Originally posted by Irvine511


might it also be possible that i would be better able to have a life filled with Agape (which i am quite familiar with on an intellectual level) and Pileo love if i also had romantic love? why pit one form against the other?

because that would recognize that there is a difference between sexual imorality and love between a couple...

and that would lead to...shudder....a cheapening of marriage as we know it....making my heterosexual marriage equal to yours.....ewwww....


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Old 06-22-2006, 07:04 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally posted by AEON


Why do you consider romantic love such a supreme necessity? Of the types of love mentioned in the New Testament, this is considered the lowest form of love below Agape (divine, self sacrificing love) and Phileo (brotherly, friendly love). It is considered lowest because it is usually temporary and usually leads to hurt and confusion. There are so many ways to find joy and happiness outside of romantic love.

That was in the times when we girls were sold for 20 chickens and a goat. Maybe I should go to my bf and tell him that if he doesn't give me a drawing table and a box of watercolours I won't love him anymore and tell him that the spiritual bond that we have beetween us is shit, because he can't gave me a drawing table ... or even worse, like dreadsox said, maybe I should go to my parents and tell them that a guy who hides behind a bible said that the things they build together is crap.

Who are you to say that romantic love is a cheap thing? and don't come with more bible stuff because I want to know what the real AEON (if there is a real one) thinks. You don't know if Irvine feels the "Spiritual fullfilment" that you are talking about, through his happiness... what if the "spiritual fullfilment" can be reach through romantic love? two people growing together, being HAPPY together aren't spiritualy rich??
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Old 06-22-2006, 07:08 PM   #88
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Thank GOD that Sodom was destroyed to save this f'd up bunch

[Q]Finally, the two virgin daughters hit upon a plan. They found some grapes. They made them into wine. They prepared the wine for their father. Their father, not knowing what their plan was, drank the wine. Finally, their father became completely drunk. They carried Lot into his cave and laid him down.

One daughter left the other alone with Lot in the cave. The daughter in the cave with Lot had sex with her father. Lot was completely drunk and did not know what he was doing. The next day, Lot had no memory of this.

The next night, the two daughters brought some more wine. Lot drank the wine and got drunk again. Again, they took them into his cave. This time, the other daughter had sex with her father. The next morning, Lot had no memory of any of this.

The two now no longer virgin daughters both became pregnant from having sex with their father. Each daughter gave birth to a baby boy. The name of the first boy was Moab. The name of the second boy was Benammi. These two boys each became the founder of a great tribe.

[/Q]

It must be all about the sex......
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Old 06-22-2006, 07:10 PM   #89
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and that would lead to...shudder....a cheapening of marriage as we know it....making my heterosexual marriage equal to yours.....ewwww....


i'm not married ... yet ...



(in all seriousness, we're just happy, and letting the relationship evolve naturally)
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Old 06-22-2006, 07:12 PM   #90
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i'm not married ... yet ...



(in all seriousness, we're just happy, and letting the relationship evolve naturally)
Excellent....

And I am more than willing to be your flower girl when the time comes
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