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Dreadsox said:
Excellent....
And I am more than willing to be your flower girl when the time comes
Sweet, can I be the ring bearer?
Dreadsox said:
Excellent....
And I am more than willing to be your flower girl when the time comes
Dreadsox said:Thank GOD that Sodom was destroyed to save this f'd up bunch
[Q]Finally, the two virgin daughters hit upon a plan. They found some grapes. They made them into wine. They prepared the wine for their father. Their father, not knowing what their plan was, drank the wine. Finally, their father became completely drunk. They carried Lot into his cave and laid him down.
One daughter left the other alone with Lot in the cave. The daughter in the cave with Lot had sex with her father. Lot was completely drunk and did not know what he was doing. The next day, Lot had no memory of this.
The next night, the two daughters brought some more wine. Lot drank the wine and got drunk again. Again, they took them into his cave. This time, the other daughter had sex with her father. The next morning, Lot had no memory of any of this.
The two now no longer virgin daughters both became pregnant from having sex with their father. Each daughter gave birth to a baby boy. The name of the first boy was Moab. The name of the second boy was Benammi. These two boys each became the founder of a great tribe.
[/Q]
It must be all about the sex......
Dreadsox said:And I am more than willing to be your flower girl when the time comes
BonoVoxSupastar said:
Sweet, can I be the ring bearer?
Irvine511 said:
of course.
somehow, i always knew my ring bearer would be a red head ...
Muggsy said:
Who are you to say that romantic love is a cheap thing? and don't come with more bible stuff because I want to know what the real AEON (if there is a real one) thinks.
Muggsy said:since I was little, I always found that text quite disturbing...
And because of texts like that I started to think that the Bible isn't a book from God. The Bible is the History of our relationship with god, about how the people shapes their own god according to their prejudices, their fears, their needs. Because if God is love, how we can explain all those laws against women, foreign people and gays?... it is evident that those laws aren't from God , those laws and precepts are from the Men (male, aristocratic men) who tried to put their words in God's mouth.
Muggsy said:
since I was little, I always found that text quite disturbing...
And because of texts like that I started to think that the Bible isn't a book from God. The Bible is the History of our relationship with god, about how the people shapes their own god according to their prejudices, their fears, their needs. Because if God is love, how we can explain all those laws against women, foreign people and gays?... it is evident that those laws aren't from God , those laws and precepts are from the Men (male, aristocratic men) who tried to put their words in God's mouth.
maycocksean said:
You think that's disturbing? Oh there's lot's worse as I'm sure you know.
I don't suppose it matters much to point out that there's nothing in Scripture to indicate that God told these two women to do what they did, nor is there anything to indicate that he approved of it (or the decision Lot made earlier in the chapter about handing his daughters over to a gang of men to be raped).
There's a line from one of my favorite singer/songwriters, Rich Mullins where he says "Well, it's right there in the Bible so it must not be a sin." He was being sarcastic of course. Everything that Biblical people, even his "followers" did should not be construed as automatically gaining God's approval. Not that that solves everything because God told people to do some things that were pretty whack too.
I guess I came to a different conclusion. I believe that the Bible is from God. But it was written by men in their words, with their perspectives, in a particular time and place. There is a lot that I still don't understand in scripture, but I understand Jesus (well enought anyway) and that's my starting place.
There's no question that the Bible is male oriented, but the same Bible says that in Christ there is no differentiatian between male and female in Christ. Those barriers are broken down. I think Jesus was the beginning of shift away from the patriarchal model of the old testament.
AEON said:
I am actually very happily married. While our marriage does have all three forms of love - it is the Agape love that is the foundation. This is why pastors refer to it - because it is what remains when your are not necessarily "feeling" romantic love.
I promised I would quote 1 Corinthians 13 - the best definition of Agape love in the Bible:
1 Corinthians 13
Love
If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.
Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 1but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love
This type of love is the foundation of marriage, as well as the foundation for my love of my brothers and sisters. This is the kind of love that motivated Christ to die for us, and the type of love that motivated the Apostles to die for spreading the message of Christ.
Muggsy said:
Yes I know that there are more disturbing things ... but as I said before I read that passage when I was very little... I was in primary school, a catholic school by the way, and the nuns let us to read the Bible freely in the spare times and I remember how impressed I was when I read that story... I mean I was to young to even imagine a girl having a kid from her own dad; i didn't even know that sometimes that happens in our time.
As a woman, raised in a catholic enviroment I realised how much the religion have treated women as sinful beings and not deserving of significant place in the Church. It is true that Jesus treated men and women as equals and that's a huge advance, but that's not seen in the Church, this year the Pope said that women can't be priests. I'm not talking about God here, I'm talking about the human institutions that wants to speak for Him. For me God is not represented in the Church, at least not in the best way, and (maybe unfortuantely) I came to the conclusion that , if the Bible has so many contradictions is because we haven't get the message.
This is a great post. I couldn't agree more. Jesus hated hypocrisy and self righteousness above all else.maycocksean said:
One thing that is really telling, if you read the gospels, is who Jesus really got worked up about. It wasn't the tax collectors. It wasn't the whores. It wasn't the homosexuals (and you know they were around at the time. Homosexuality--as described by others in earlier posts, the idolatry of the male body, the older man--young boy pairings--was common in the Greek culture of that time). It was you and me. The religious people. The good churchgoers who had it all together. The ones who prayed "Lord, I thank you that I am not like this sinnner over there. . .). The one group of people Jesus really laid into were the religious people. I don't know about you but I think there is an important lesson there for us.
AEON said:This is a great post. I couldn't agree more. Jesus hated hypocrisy and self righteousness above all else.
But we as Christians are also called to defend the faith against false teachers, the "wolves in sheeps clothing." Many Christians are confused by the types of questions being raised here. I am just showing them that not everyone agrees with the answers that Melon provides. The stance I am taking is unpopular here, it may not be politically correct, and almost certainly cast me in a negative light in the Interference crowd. However, if I didn't stand up to what I believe is a false representation a what Christ taught, then I would be failing my duty.
Whether I am right or wrong, you will have to discover that on your own.
AEON said:If you claim to be a Christian, please, do me a favor and read up on a little Scripture before making grand statements about the faith. This woman obviously "cut and pastes" what she likes from the Bible and "deletes" what she doesn't like.
AEON said:But we as Christians are also called to defend the faith against false teachers, the "wolves in sheeps clothing." Many Christians are confused by the types of questions being raised here. I am just showing them that not everyone agrees with the answers that Melon provides. The stance I am taking is unpopular here, it may not be politically correct, and almost certainly cast me in a negative light in the Interference crowd. However, if I didn't stand up to what I believe is a false representation a what Christ taught, then I would be failing my duty.
Dreadsox said:
So again, your brand of Christianity does not cut and paste? Still waiting for my answer to that.
In two threads you attack the leadership of my church and my church itself implying we are not Christians.
I do not agree with maycocksean's post at all.
AEON said:
To answer your question - no, I do not believe I am a cut and paste Christian. As Jesus said, all of the law and prophets can be summed up in the Great Commandment. And as most Biblical Scholars will say, Jesus is referring to the 10 Commandments - not the Leveticus laws - which are not followed today because they were believed necessary to carry the Jews through history until the arrival of the Messiah. The Bible itself informs us that this is the case in Paul's letters and the Book of Acts - as Melon correctly pointed out.
AEON said:I know I need work on my "presentation." I think I do come across a little more friendly in person, but probably only a little
It is really difficult to commuicate in this manner, but I still give it a shot because I know there are other people who read this who may be "on the fence" regarding this issue and I want them to know that there are some people out here that are not intimitated by the hateful, misguided attacks that usually result. I would not be suprised if I were banned because I DARE claim that the Bible thinks that homosexual sex is a sin.
LivLuvAndBootlegMusic said:To me, this is not an issue of homosexuality (well, it is but....), it's about people thinking they have the God-given right to CHOOSE which sins they feel are applicable. If gays can't be bishops simply because they are gay, than you have no choice but to extend this logic and say that alcohol or drug users/abusers can't be bishops, men/women who have affairs or get divorced can't be bishops, anyone who's ever had a lustful or hateful thought can't be a bishop....see what a mess this creates?
Dreadsox said:
So again, your brand of Christianity does not cut and paste? Still waiting for my answer to that.
In two threads you attack the leadership of my church and my church itself implying we are not Christians.
I do not agree with maycocksean's post at all.
Irvine511 said:[q]Because I do not have gay friends, it does not change what the Bible says about gay sex. [/q]
but it might change your interpretation and understanding of what the bible says about "gay sex" --
Matthew 22:36-37
"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."
nbcrusader said:What does it mean to love God? To obey His Commands!