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Old 06-22-2006, 11:43 AM   #31
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I'm not sure AEON knew what would erupt with his/her post.

I think we've got plenty of threads laying out the arguments on both sides (yes, Lies, even properly exegeted Scripture) of the issue - I'm not sure we will cover any new ground productively here.

It is odd pickle the Episcopal Church as got itself into. One might ask "are liars, thieves and gossips welcome at an Episcopal church?" The response (and correct me if I am wrong) would be yes, lovingly like anyone else. No one would ever think to say we need to treat you differently.

That is the part everyone is missing. We all approach the Cross on an equal footing as sinners. Take a worldly approach and you make the ground uneven.

And with all due respect to Dreadsox, I think that is what is happening here. In a desire not to elevate one sin over another, the church has elevated one over another by trying to say “It is not sin” – but then turning around and elevating it as a means to exclude people for the office of Bishop. In essence, the good intentioned effort to be welcoming has done just the opposite – it has separated out a group of people (we need to change our reading of the Bible to welcome you) and denied them access to certain offices.

People don’t erase sin – God erases sin. If we try, we are just fooling ourselves. For we all fall short of the Glory of God.
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Old 06-22-2006, 12:12 PM   #32
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If I could cut and paste the ENTIRE Bible into a post - I would. If I could post an entire exegesis on the numerous references regarding homosexual behavior - I would.

At this point, I can only implore you to do the honest research yourself. Trust the Holy Spirit to guide your thoughts and to lead you to the conclusions that God has designed.

To me, the Bible is very clear on this issue. To others, maybe not so clear. I can accept that.

Personally, I rely on the Holy Spirit to convict me of sin. Whether it be getting angry in traffic or feeling lust - the Holy Spirit sends out screaming alarms that what I am thinking or doing is WRONG. Most of the times I listen, sometimes I fail to listen - and usually somone gets hurt when that happens. Funny how that works out isn't it?

The Christian walk is a process. It takes years and years to change old habits and attitudes. I have changed quite a bit since my conversion, and I am thankful there is still more work to be done.
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Old 06-22-2006, 12:21 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by AEON
If I could cut and paste the ENTIRE Bible into a post - I would. If I could post an entire exegesis on the numerous references regarding homosexual behavior - I would.


tell me, is it okay for me to be in love with my boyfriend, to spend time together, to build a loving, trust-based relationship, but just so long as we don't engage in any homosexual "behavior" -- since all homosexuals do is fuck each other, and that's it, there's no love or intimacy or commitment or anything, just fucking, constantly -- then would that be okay with you and your God?

could it also be that in Biblical times there was no meaningful understanding of homosexuality or of a gay identity? could it be that, guess what, the Bible is reflective of the time in which it was written, and that a contemporary understanding of gay relationships reveals absolutely NO DIFFERENCE in their morality than heterosexual relationships?

if ass fucking is all you can see when you read those biblical passages, then perhaps you need to pull yourself out of the bible, meet some gay people, understand that homosexuality is EXACTLY like heterosexuality, only with two people of the same gender, and then go back to Scripture and see if it still says the same thing you think it does.

could it be that perhaps your understanding is flawed? that passages can be used to deepen and strengthen and justify and even make virtuous already existing prejudices? that if we start to get a broader understanding of the depth and breadth of human methods of loving that perhaps a deeper Scriptural understanding might arise from the text?
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Old 06-22-2006, 12:36 PM   #34
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Come on Irvine we know that Homosexuals only want sex

I agree with you totally with what you said. He needs to take his nose out of the Bible and meet with Gay people and see that they are human beings and not some other form of species. Who is he to judge, we will face our judgement when we die for what we have done in life. I am happy that you and your BF love each other. Does Washington plan on having a Pride Parade like SF does?
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Old 06-22-2006, 12:41 PM   #35
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Come on Irvine we know that Homosexuals only want sex



it's also the thinking that the thing that makes someone gay is having homosexual sex. while that's certainly part of it, it's no more a part of being gay than heterosexual sex is about being straight. it's very insulting to have your romantic, emotional, and sexual life reduced to a sexual act.


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I am happy that you and your BF love each other. Does Washington plan on having a Pride Parade like SF does?

we had one 2 weeks ago -- i have weird feelings about Pride Parades. i suppose they are necessary, and they're fun, but i have the sneaking suspicion that they do more harm than good as they tend to perpeturate stereotypes (Disco Twinks, Drag Queens, Leather Bears).

i have actually been to the SF pride parade and that was on a whole other level -- wow! massive.
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Old 06-22-2006, 12:44 PM   #36
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I think the Word Homosexual is a stereotype, where all people think is oh great, gay sex and other sorts, like many stereotype the black people with crime etc... whites as KKK, racists, asians as dog eaters etc... It's wrong! Well the Pride parade is this weekend just to let you know.

He/she should watch 30Days( by the guy who filmed that MC'Ds 30 day food binge) It's on itunes for 1.99
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Old 06-22-2006, 01:26 PM   #37
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Originally posted by AEON
If I could cut and paste the ENTIRE Bible into a post - I would. If I could post an entire exegesis on the numerous references regarding homosexual behavior - I would.

Numerous references?

I bet you couldn't show me one. It's interesting because many have tried and failed.
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Old 06-22-2006, 01:32 PM   #38
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Numerous references?

I bet you couldn't show me one. It's interesting because many have tried and failed.
Hey BVS no laughing. Give him/her a chance
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Old 06-22-2006, 01:40 PM   #39
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Hey BVS no laughing. Give him/her a chance
But it's just a fact. Even those that narrowly interpret the Bible this way can only find 2 or 3. Not numerous. That's why I laugh because it's obvious this person is exagerating out of desperation. Those 2 or 3 can easily be refutted once you look at context and the history of translation.
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Old 06-22-2006, 01:42 PM   #40
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But even if you do not agree with Aeon. They are still entitled to their opinion. I dont believe Aeon is being discriminate in anyway either. She or he is not saying you must follow god's rule or burn in hell forever. He/she is stating an opinion and thats all. Thats what I believe.
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Old 06-22-2006, 01:43 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Numerous references?

I bet you couldn't show me one. It's interesting because many have tried and failed.
You really don't invite discussion with a

And if you'd go back and look at all the prior thread's we've had on the subject, you would see multiple references in both Old and New Testaments.

I know each reference has been countered with different explainations, but you still have a string of repeated statements to deal with.
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Old 06-22-2006, 01:46 PM   #42
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Can you post the NT verses for me? I'm not going to argue them here, I'm just curious and would like to look them up since I'm stuck in front of this screen all day.
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Old 06-22-2006, 01:57 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Those 2 or 3 can easily be refutted once you look at context and the history of translation.
Easily?

Anyone--regardless of conclusions drawn--who proclaims the interpretation of the Leviticus passages, at least, "easy" is not anyone to be trusted. I spent 15 years studying Hebrew, Tanakh, and Talmud growing up, plowed through thousands of pages of both Orthodox and Conservative responsa on the topic when I was confused college student trying to figure out where I belonged, and I still really do not know what to make of them. In the end, for me, this does not matter. But they are anything but easy to interpret definitively.
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Old 06-22-2006, 02:04 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by AEON
If I could cut and paste the ENTIRE Bible into a post - I would. If I could post an entire exegesis on the numerous references regarding homosexual behavior - I would.
But how would you cut and paste Jesus into a post?


Jesus never called a gay person a sinner.
Jesus never called a gay person immoral.
Jesus never asked a gay person to change.
Jesus never condemned a single gay person.
Jesus never judged a single gay person.
Jesus never quoted scripture against a single gay person.

My Christian walk has taught me what Jesus is and was all about, and that didn't come from studying The Bible. I'm sure I'm not what you would consider the "proper type" of Christian, but I am one all the same.
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Old 06-22-2006, 02:14 PM   #45
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But how would you cut and paste Jesus into a post?


Jesus never called a gay person a sinner.
Jesus never called a gay person immoral.
Jesus never asked a gay person to change.
Jesus never condemned a single gay person.
Jesus never judged a single gay person.
Jesus never quoted scripture against a single gay person.

My Christian walk has taught me what Jesus is and was all about, and that didn't come from studying The Bible. I'm sure I'm not what you would consider the "proper type" of Christian, but I am one all the same.
Jesus would call each one of us a sinner. And He would say (as only He can) that our sins are forgiven.
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