Episcopal Bishop Homosexuality is not a Sin - Page 10 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 06-23-2006, 11:35 PM   #136
Blue Crack Addict
 
Liesje's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: In the dog house
Posts: 19,557
Local Time: 11:21 PM
Yeah Aaron, that was a great post, not ramblings at all. I think you're saying what I'm thinking and asking the same questions I've been asking.
__________________

__________________
Liesje is offline  
Old 06-24-2006, 10:22 AM   #137
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 08:21 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Well then I guess we should rid ourselves of all our female ministers, priests etc and start changing society to be as sexist as God.

Seems pretty hypocritical of the church not to follow these rules.
That makes for a good, snappy response. Is it a genuine analysis for purposes of discussion?
__________________

__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 06-24-2006, 10:36 AM   #138
Jesus Online
 
Angela Harlem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: a glass castle
Posts: 30,163
Local Time: 03:21 PM
Remove any perceived snappiness from this, and isn't that what essentially remains? The church is rather sexist and otherwise blatant in inequality?
__________________
<a href=http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v196/angelaharlem/thPaul_Roos28.jpg target=_blank>http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...aul_Roos28.jpg</a>
Angela Harlem is offline  
Old 06-24-2006, 12:27 PM   #139
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
BonosSaint's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,566
Local Time: 12:21 AM
I think women will willingly submit to men as teachers once we figure you've got it right. Or maybe not.
__________________
BonosSaint is offline  
Old 06-24-2006, 01:19 PM   #140
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 08:21 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem
Remove any perceived snappiness from this, and isn't that what essentially remains? The church is rather sexist and otherwise blatant in inequality?
No, BVS's comment was that God was sexist when he applies his own notions of equality.
__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 06-24-2006, 03:25 PM   #141
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,684
Local Time: 10:21 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


No, BVS's comment was that God was sexist when he applies his own notions of equality.
No I'm trying to get at why the literalists aren't calling out the church's supposed hypocrisy?
__________________
BVS is online now  
Old 06-24-2006, 04:25 PM   #142
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 08:21 PM
By projecting your notion of what "literalists" believe then condemning them. Besides, you did state they were "as sexist as God".
__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 06-24-2006, 04:37 PM   #143
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,684
Local Time: 10:21 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
By projecting your notion of what "literalists" believe then condemning them. Besides, you did state they were "as sexist as God".
Ok, I may have been harsh but that's because I have a hard time wrapping my head around it. I don't understand why somethings are taken very literal and others aren't if EVERYTHING in the Bible is suppose to be taken as God's command. And this is what's not getting answered...

When I look at the Bible literally I see a son that almost contradicts his father.
__________________
BVS is online now  
Old 06-24-2006, 04:41 PM   #144
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 08:21 PM
Fair enough - it is not easy territory. The passages you referenced are challenging to absorb and apply. Personally, we have faced our own hardships based on other's interpretations (my wife teaches a bible study).
__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 06-25-2006, 12:45 AM   #145
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
AEON's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: California
Posts: 4,052
Local Time: 09:21 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by melon


You have no right to make such an asinine assumption.

Melon
You are quite correct and I sincerely apologize. I'm a bit confused by some of your posts, but I had no right to try and guess your motivation. It WAS totally asinine of me.

Please forgive me.

I do look forward to your posts. I have for years. I usually do not agree with them, but they definitely show thought and careful consideration.
__________________
AEON is offline  
Old 06-25-2006, 01:34 AM   #146
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
maycocksean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: The Most Important State in the Union
Posts: 4,882
Local Time: 11:21 PM
I think it's fair to say that no one but the most fanatical extremists (none of which have posted here as far as I can tell) take everything in the Bible completely literally. EVERYONE picks and chooses. Everyone.

What seperates fundamentalist Christians or literalists from other Christians is our belief that the entire Bible is from God. We believe, as Nbc said, that if some of the Bible is from man and some of the Bible is from God then each individual becomes the arbiter of what is from God and what is from man. For a "literalist" this kind of individual Christianity is not workable.

Now from this point, we may go in different directions. I think we can all agree that Bible is not always easily understood. And I don't think that's a bad thing. Anything worthwhile I believe shoudl be a challenge, should require some effort.

So how does a literalist pick and choose if the "entire Bible is the word of God." Here's how I do it. First off I realize that the Bible is a story (a true one, but a story), not a list of instructions. We should not take everything that Biblical people did as instructions for what we should do. We should not presume that God approved of everything Biblical people did--even those who were his followers. We should not take everything that Biblical people believed about God to represent what is actually true about God. What we see in scripture is that everyone, even the "holy men" are pretty screwed up. Our only image of perfection found in the Bible is in Jesus (and even Him we don't always understand). The Bible is the story of humans struggling to find God, God reaching out to them, humans turning away from Him and reaping the consequences. The Bible presents God as the source of life and love, and apart from Him there is only death and selfishness.

I believe (and I know not all literalists agree with me) that the Bible was inspired by God but written by men. I don't believe as the Muslims do about the Koran, that the Bible is a dictation with God telling the prophets exactly what words to write. (This is why Muslims encourage the faithful to learn Arabic--because they believe the Koran is word-for-word from God, any translation will invariably introduce the human element and compromise it's accuracy). The writers of the Bible used their own words and perspective to express God's ideas.

As a result the Bible was written in the context of a particular time, place, and culture. The Bible did not and could not address issues of technology, knowledge, and culture that were not present at the time it was written. However, the PRINCIPLES of scripture, the message of scripture, the power of scripture to impact our lives is timeless and unchanging. We can use those principles, and the message of scripture today. We can apply them to modern life and our present culture through reasonable, thoughtful, and prayerful application. We must mine Scripture with the Holy Spirit's guidance to discover the underlying principles and apply them properly. We often make mistakes in doing so, especially when a particular pet interpretation can be used to justify wrong behavior.

Finally, I believe that God has shown (and continues to show) an awful lot of patience with us, and He takes us where we are at. A friend of mine believes that the Biblical culture is "God's culture", that God "created" the culture of the Hebrews. I could not disagree with him more. If I were to agree with him I would have to agree that God is sexist. And of course this is not compatible with our bedrock belief as Christians that God is a God of love. The culture of Biblical times was very much a patriarchal culture. Very male dominated. I believe God worked with that, though I do not believe this was His ideal, or His plan. (One of the best evidences we have of this is of Jesus treatment of women, which was far "ahead of his time.") But he worked with people where they were at. Other examples would be the practices of polgyny and slavery which I do not believe God approved of either. But he chose to work with people in the culture and place where they were at.

There are hard scriptures in the Bible--like the one about women being silent in church. We need to try to understand the context, culture, and time in which this was written. Perhaps it was important then. Perhaps it is not so important now. Again we have to look at the "big picture", the larger principle, we have to look at other scriptures that tell us that in Christ there is no male or female, no Jew or Greek, no slave or free, but all are equal under Christ. We need to look at scriptures that tell us that husband and wife should submitt to ONE ANOTHER.

And when we find ourselves teaching things from the Bible that lead to hatred, prejudice, and intolerance we need to ask ourselves whether we've really understood scripture correctly.
__________________
maycocksean is offline  
Old 06-30-2006, 08:08 PM   #147
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 08:21 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by maycocksean
I think it's fair to say that no one but the most fanatical extremists (none of which have posted here as far as I can tell) take everything in the Bible completely literally. EVERYONE picks and chooses. Everyone.
While I agree with much of the substance of your response, the initial summation is with error (though it may need to be to fit into the context of the forum vernacular). First, many have used the term “literalist” as the appropriate label for one who takes Scripture as the authoritative, inerrant Word of God. One cannot take all of Scripture literally because Scripture points out where imagery is used in the forms of parables or prophecy – thus internally directing the reader to not take the passage literally.

Another problem with the pick and choose summation is that it replaces any form of Scriptural analysis for discussion. Say a passage of Scripture (“Passage X”) that was essential for salvation before the Messiah becomes not essential for salvation when salvation came by grace through faith in Christ. This does not mean you have “stopped picking” Passage X. It also does not mean that Passage X can be removed from Scripture.

Some level of exegesis must occur – it cannot be described with a quip like “pick and choose”. So, properly read, one who takes the entire body of Scripture as the authoritative, inerrant Word of God is NOT picking and choosing. Thus, the summation that everyone does so is false.
__________________

__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:21 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com