Elton john wants....

[vaz02]

Pop's Sir Elton John wants religion banned completely because he believes it promotes hatred of gays.

Speaking to the Observer Music Monthly Magazine the singer said religion lacked compassion and turned people into "hateful lemmings".

In a candid interview for a dedicated Gay issue of the magazine he shared his views on topics as varied as being a pop icon to Tony Blair's stance on the war in Iraq.

He said there was a lack of religious leadership, particularly in world politics, and complained that people do not take to the streets to protest any more.

Sir Elton said: "I think religion has always tried to turn hatred towards gay people. Religion promotes the hatred and spite against gays.

"But there are so many people I know who are gay and love their religion. From my point of view I would ban religion completely. Organised religion doesn't seem to work. It turns people into really hateful lemmings and it's not really compassionate.



"I said this after 9/11 and people thought I was nuts.

Sir Elton compared his place in British culture with that of the Queen Mother's. "People come to me and I'm a bit like the Queen Mother. I don't know what it is with me, people treat me very reverently.

He pledged to continue to campaign for gay rights saying: "I'm going to fight for them whether I do it silently behind the scenes or so vocally that I get locked up. I can't just sit back; it's not in my nature any more. I'm nearly 60-years-old after all. I can't sit back and blindly ignore it and I won't.

------------------

He's got a point , religion and lack of understanding dont really help matters.

 

[A_Wanderer]

Elton John is both correct about religion but completely authoritarian in the course of action.

 

[redhotswami]

What about the members of the gay community who are religious??

 

[JCOSTER]

Elton is flipping his wig.

 

[A_Wanderer]

What about the members of the gay community who are religious??

They aren't wanted by the mainstream of their religions.

 

[INDY500]

Shut up and sing.

 

[indra]

Elton compared his place in British culture with that of the Queen Mother's. "People come to me and I'm a bit like the Queen Mother. I don't know what it is with me, people treat me very reverently.

I got quite a giggle out of that bit. Yep, Elton John and the Queen Mother -- both batty but harmless.


His proposal would never work of course, but I think it should be proposed regularly, just to keep the "I don't like it/think it's immoral/find it icky" religious types on their toes.

 

[A_Wanderer]

How about the freedom of concience crowd who see that atheistic regimes murdered millions and supressed religious thought?

 

[maycocksean]

How about the freedom of concience crowd who see that atheistic regimes murdered millions and supressed religious thought?

Good point.

 

[1stepcloser]

I agree with Elton. He makes some legitimate points.

 

[AEON]

Shut up and sing.

That was a HILARIOUS pic. Where in the world did you find that?

 

[adrball]

How can anyone take Elton John seriously???

 

[maycocksean]

I agree with Elton. He makes some legitimate points.

I'm sorry but no he really doesn't. Logically, religion does not inevitably lead to prejudice against gays (I'd be willing to accept that it could lead to prejudice against those not a part of the religion, so yes religion could foment certain types of prejudice--but not all). Can someone tell me what aspect of religion makes it inevitable that there will be hatred for gays? ESPECIALLY if you believe that religion is a man-made creation, you're going to have a hard time making your case.

Religion can be used as a convenient cloak for prejudice: "I don't like this so God doesn't like it either" but that hardly means religion is the source of the prejudice.

 

[INDY500]

I agree with Elton. He makes some legitimate points.

Imagine there's no Heaven
It's easy if you try

 

[Ormus]

I'm sorry but no he really doesn't. Logically, religion does not inevitably lead to prejudice against gays (I'd be willing to accept that it could lead to prejudice against those not a part of the religion, so yes religion could foment certain types of prejudice--but not all). Can someone tell me what aspect of religion makes it inevitable that there will be hatred for gays? ESPECIALLY if you believe that religion is a man-made creation, you're going to have a hard time making your case.

Religion can be used as a convenient cloak for prejudice: "I don't like this so God doesn't like it either" but that hardly means religion is the source of the prejudice.

There's certainly plenty of Christians here who help make Elton's point about religion being homophobic...but then there's thankfully plenty here who contradict his point.

On the other hand, this place isn't exactly a good representation of global demographics, and there's many countries in this world where homophobia is rabidly driven by religion. Where did all these "Defense of Marriage Acts" come from? What about the Muslim world's homophobia?

But, on the other hand, communist countries, traditionally, have hardly been bastions of gay tolerance.

So what came first? Hate or religion? The chicken or the egg?

 

[BVS]

Religion can be used as a convenient cloak for prejudice: "I don't like this so God doesn't like it either" but that hardly means religion is the source of the prejudice.

This is true, how many people are open minded and have no problem with homosexuality and then get religious later in their lives and then decide they need to condemn homosexuals? Probably very very few.

 

[1stepcloser]

I'm sorry but no he really doesn't. Logically, religion does not inevitably lead to prejudice against gays (I'd be willing to accept that it could lead to prejudice against those not a part of the religion, so yes religion could foment certain types of prejudice--but not all). Can someone tell me what aspect of religion makes it inevitable that there will be hatred for gays? ESPECIALLY if you believe that religion is a man-made creation, you're going to have a hard time making your case.

Religion can be used as a convenient cloak for prejudice: "I don't like this so God doesn't like it either" but that hardly means religion is the source of the prejudice.

Elton is simply making the point that some religeons are stuck in their draconian ways and they find it very hard to accept that gay people exist. He'd rather live in a world where gay people are accepted for who they are than be banished from certain sections of society because of what some battered old manuscript says. I personally find it shocking that these kind of prejudices still exist outside of facist/nazi viewpoints.

I know not everyone of a religeous persuation despises homosexuals and that some religeons are worse than others but that fact that some people do hate gays purely because of what their religeon says and not because of the conclusions that they themselves have come to means that i think Elton has fair point.

 

[VintagePunk]

This is true, how many people are open minded and have no problem with homosexuality and then get religious later in their lives and then decide they need to condemn homosexuals? Probably very very few.

Evangelical fundamentalists, maybe?

 

[BVS]

Evangelical fundamentalists, maybe?

But how many of them weren't homophobic before? That's my point.

 

[VintagePunk]

But how many of them weren't homophobic before? That's my point.

I guess it would be hard to say. Perhaps it's the case that those non-homophobic people would be less likely to subscribe to that particular branch of Christianity later in life.

 

[LPU2]

I agree with Elton if we think of religion as "what we get when God has left the building."

In other words, it's not God that is anti-gay. It's people's distortion of God that is anti gay. The Bible says homosexuality is wrong much like eating shellfish is wrong. But for whatever reason, pinheads everywhere think it's God's commandment to rid the planet of homosexuality.

 

[verte76]

I'm sorry but no he really doesn't. Logically, religion does not inevitably lead to prejudice against gays (I'd be willing to accept that it could lead to prejudice against those not a part of the religion, so yes religion could foment certain types of prejudice--but not all). Can someone tell me what aspect of religion makes it inevitable that there will be hatred for gays? ESPECIALLY if you believe that religion is a man-made creation, you're going to have a hard time making your case.

Religion can be used as a convenient cloak for prejudice: "I don't like this so God doesn't like it either" but that hardly means religion is the source of the prejudice.

I agree with this. While hatred of gays certainly exists in organized religion, I don't think organized religion per se is the cause of prejudice against gays.

 

[CTU2fan]

Just because some religious types would like to ban homosexuality Elton wants to ban religion? That makes a lot of sense - well, not so much.

Shut up & sing, indeed.

 

[coemgen]

The Bible says homosexuality is wrong much like eating shellfish is wrong.

It says it in the New Testament, too.

Here's where I'm at. I don't think gay marriage should exist -- at this point. There's no proof of homosexuality being genetic (Johns Hopkins and others have found no proof at least). If it's not genetic, then it's developed some other way. The sad thing is, many people who are homosexual were sexually abused or had an emotionally distant father. With this in mind, I can make the argument that gay marriage shouldn't be allowed because it cements a relationship that's based on something unnatural. I'm not using the word sin here and I don't have to quote the Bible to make an arguement. If anything, the Bible has pushed me to love homosexuals as they should be loved -- as humans like the rest of us.

So, I don't think religion should be used to stop gays from marrying, I think, when other things are looked at honestly, the case can be made against it in other ways.

Do I hate gays now? Of course not. I'm friends with some. They're good people.

 

[Ormus]

There's no proof of homosexuality being genetic (Johns Hopkins and others have found no proof at least). If it's not genetic, then it's developed some other way. The sad thing is, many people who are homosexual were sexually abused or had an emotionally distant father.

Faulty logic, if I ever saw it. Find a room full of heterosexuals and you'll find plenty of people who were sexually abused or had an emotionally distant father.

It also doesn't explain away homosexuals who weren't sexually abused and were close with both of their non-divorced parents.

In other words, from an anthropological POV, it's faulty logic.

With this in mind, I can make the argument that gay marriage shouldn't be allowed because it cements a relationship that's based on something unnatural.

And, yet, science has more than revealed homosexuality to be a part of nature, with same-sex behavior observed throughout the animal kingdom.

Let's look at it this way. Humanity is highly variable, with genetic variations/mutations existing with every possible human trait. Some variations are beneficial (a gene that makes you naturally immune to HIV infection), some are downright fatal (anencephaly), and some are completely neutral (tongue rolling). Why would one's sexuality be the *one* trait immune to the variability of nature? Seeing that we have heterosexuals, homosexuals, bisexuals, and asexuals, which cover the entire spectrum of sexuality, it's obvious that sexuality conforms exactly as expected in human nature and genetics.

Do I hate gays now? Of course not. I'm friends with some. They're good people.

"I like black people. I'm friends with some. But gosh darn it, they had better learn to be put in their place and like it."

I hope you realize how insulting that sounds, even if I understand that your intentions are benign.

 

[coemgen]

I didn't say it explained every case. You can't tell me that all homosexuals were born that way. That's faulty logic, too.

And comparing blacks to homosexuals isn't smart either. I know you're doing it to take a jab at me, but a lifestyle and a race are two different things. Don't use them to try to make a counter argument.

 

[indra]

You can't tell me that all homosexuals were born that way.

So....when exactly did you choose to become a heterosexual?

 

[coemgen]

Apples to oranges, indra.

 

[Ormus]

I didn't say it explained every case. You can't tell me that all homosexuals were born that way. That's faulty logic, too.

It's not up to me to prove that burden. Noted anthropologist, Margaret Mead, was able to disprove the old axiom that teenage rebellion was genetic by finding a non-Western culture that had no teenage rebellion whatsoever. In other words, "an exception to the rule" disproves the rule completely.

For what it's worth, anthropology doesn't believe that a "gay gene" will ever be found, believing that we're all inherently bisexual, after long observations of non-Western cultures. A cursory glance at ancient Greece and Rome would probably confirm that too.

On the other hand, the fact that there are people who are exclusively heterosexual and exclusively homosexual tends to leave a gaping hole in their argument for inherent bisexuality. Regardless, the case for sexual variance being a part of nature has more than been proven. The exact origin of it is unknown, but even then, the exact origin of heterosexuality is unknown, as well. The specific genes for sexuality have yet to have been uncovered, but we're still, in many ways, in the infancy of deciphering the human genome in spite of all our progress over the last decade.

Your views on homosexuality are colored with Freudian stereotypes of psychosis and mental illness (which is precisely where you got those notions of sexual abuse and distant fathers from), which, when stacked up to the sum total of human knowledge, is an aberration in itself. Rest assured, though, those Freudian theories on sexuality were disproven long ago, and homosexuality hasn't been listed as a mental illness since the early 1970s.

And comparing blacks to homosexuals isn't smart either. I know you're doing it to take a jab at me, but a lifestyle and a race are two different things. Don't use them to try to make a counter argument.

Methinks someone needs to take a cultural sensitivity course, if you can't see why I would find that insulting.

 

[Ormus]

So....when exactly did you choose to become a heterosexual?

Why, through sexual abuse and a distant mother, of course.