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Old 11-17-2006, 07:37 PM   #121
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Originally posted by coemgen
There may not be a straight gene, but the design of the penis and vagina working together for various reasons seems to be evidence of something.

(BTW, I know that sounds harsh. Not meant to be. Just trying to make a point.)


this is world-is-flat thinking.

but i do take the point -- i have nothing against heterosexuality. it's a wonderful thing. i'm the product of heterosexuality. we need heterosexuals and penises in vaginas in order to create more homosexuals. yay penises and vaginas!

but that's not *all* penises and vaginas are for, and if we want to talk design, then why did God put the male G-spot, the prostate, in the anus?

just asking is all.
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Old 11-17-2006, 07:41 PM   #122
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Ummm - Irvine...no need to post an answer to this - you know, of how well "A" fits into "B" - but the same could be said for just about anything you want to put in "B."

If you can't see that man and woman are the natural order of things - then you'll never see it because you don't want to see it. I suppose if I were in your shoes I would feel the same way as you do. I suppose...

white people with white people, black people with black people, asians with asians ... mixed-race coupling is not the natural order of things.
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Old 11-17-2006, 07:49 PM   #123
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Originally posted by Irvine511



white people with white people, black people with black people, asians with asians ... mixed-race coupling is not the natural order of things.
That is a pretty big leap in your logic.

Comparing inter-racial unions with gay unions is not the same ball park - it's not even the same league - it's not even the same sport (to paraphrase Jules).
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Old 11-17-2006, 07:52 PM   #124
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Originally posted by Irvine511


and if we want to talk design, then why did God put the male G-spot, the prostate, in the anus?

just asking is all.
Heroine feels good, from what I've read - it feels unbelievable good - but that doesn't mean it is good for you.
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Old 11-17-2006, 08:15 PM   #125
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Well - I don't have a problem with women teachers or preachers. If they speak in Spirit and in Truth - that is all that really matters. Many denominations disagree on this issue - I guess I am a little more "liberal" regarding this.
This is my whole point. You use Paul's words to justify your stance on homosexuality, saying he's speaking God's words, yet when it doesn't suit your beliefs you ignore his words. As a literalist you should be more consistent.

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What do YOU think Paul means? Do you think he only wants men to teach? If so, why? Or do you think that perhaps having women teachers in these early churches would have caused too much of an uproar? But in the fullness of time - perhaps women teachers would be considered no big deal?
I believe lots of Paul's own biases and beliefs were written into his letters. Most obvious were his views on marriage, women, and homosexuality. I believe Paul was still stuck in Levitical law.


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There is a difference between descriptive writing and prescriptive writing. I think Paul is being descriptive. Why? Because I don't see how women teachers goes against God's eternal law. Whereas homosexuality still falls under adultery.
Read it again, Paul preaches it as if it's law.

And obviously "because I don't see how women teachers goes against God's eternal law" doesn't work because you couldn't show me one once of evidence the logic behind why homosexuality goes against His law. If marriage was allowed it wouldn't be adultery. You are using backward logic and contradicting yourself. Be careful.
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Old 11-17-2006, 08:17 PM   #126
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Heroine feels good, from what I've read - it feels unbelievable good - but that doesn't mean it is good for you.
Heroine can also kill you. Poor analogy.

Never heard of anyone dying from an orgasm.
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Old 11-17-2006, 08:54 PM   #127
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar




Never heard of anyone dying from an orgasm.
Actually - it seems millions of people have done just that.
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Old 11-17-2006, 09:04 PM   #128
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Actually - it seems millions of people have done just that.
Is this a reference to AIDS?
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Old 11-17-2006, 09:08 PM   #129
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar

If marriage was allowed it wouldn't be adultery. You are using backward logic and contradicting yourself. Be careful.
I think it makes perfect sense. Adultery is any sex outside of marriage. Marriage is defined as between a man and a woman. Therefore, sex between two men is adultery. (ad infinitum ad nauseam). Adultery is against God’s eternal moral law. To me it is that simple.

Teaching in church was both a cultural and ceremonial “law.” They are for a specific place and time. Like wearing shorts and going barefoot to a seaside service.

I use Paul's words because I believe (as do most all other Christians) he was inspired by the Holy Spirit. If you feel he has put his own agenda into the letters - that is your right. Personally, I've learned to trust Paul's writings and I see why they have changed the world. He is second only to Jesus Christ in influence.

When I read Paul's letters I see a man devoting his entire life to saving others - who many times DID change customs and ceremonial laws - and a man who gave up his own life only to share the love of Christ. Please forgive me if I give the man a little credit and think that it is unfair to cast off his writings as "homophobic" and “misogynistic."
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Old 11-17-2006, 09:11 PM   #130
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Originally posted by verte76


Is this a reference to AIDS?
BVS said he never heard of anyone dying from an orgasm. I think it is safe to say that many people have.
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Old 11-17-2006, 09:21 PM   #131
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar

I believe Paul was still stuck in Levitical law.

No offense, but this statement shows how little you know the New Testament. Paul was RADICAL in his defiance of Levitical Law.

Seriously BVS - you have made some sweeping statements that could easily be understood by skimming through the Book of Acts or by actually (I dare say) reading Paul's letters.

I am just curious - Since I know you are not the biggest fan of Christianity - which moral view do you actually support?
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Old 11-17-2006, 09:41 PM   #132
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Originally posted by AEON


BVS said he never heard of anyone dying from an orgasm. I think it is safe to say that many people have.
This answer is such bullshit. Was it the orgasm that killed them? No.

Man, do some research...
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Old 11-17-2006, 09:59 PM   #133
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Originally posted by AEON


I think it makes perfect sense. Adultery is any sex outside of marriage. Marriage is defined as between a man and a woman. Therefore, sex between two men is adultery. (ad infinitum ad nauseam). Adultery is against God’s eternal moral law. To me it is that simple.
That's the most backward logic. It's only adultery because they can't marry. YOUR definition of marriage is man and woman. So you are forcing any homosexual relationship to be adultery. It's that simple.

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Originally posted by AEON

Teaching in church was both a cultural and ceremonial “law.” They are for a specific place and time. Like wearing shorts and going barefoot to a seaside service.
Where does Paul say that? Why would Paul even mention it? Why would Paul speaking about cultural law make it into the Bible. Obviously many many theologians disagree with you.


Quote:
Originally posted by AEON

I use Paul's words because I believe (as do most all other Christians) he was inspired by the Holy Spirit. If you feel he has put his own agenda into the letters - that is your right. Personally, I've learned to trust Paul's writings and I see why they have changed the world. He is second only to Jesus Christ in influence.
Inspired doesn't mean infallible.
Quote:
Originally posted by AEON

When I read Paul's letters I see a man devoting his entire life to saving others - who many times DID change customs and ceremonial laws - and a man who gave up his own life only to share the love of Christ. Please forgive me if I give the man a little credit and think that it is unfair to cast off his writings as "homophobic" and “misogynistic."
I admire Paul, but I know he was human and his own beliefs may have affected his writing. This is part of human nature. No reason for this tone.
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Old 11-17-2006, 10:07 PM   #134
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No offense, but this statement shows how little you know the New Testament. Paul was RADICAL in his defiance of Levitical Law.
Not all of it. I believe Paul quotes Levitical law more than anyone else in the NT, I'd have to check on that, for it's been awhile since I did that study. I'm not saying he believed you had to still uphold it, but he carried over some of it's thinking. Are you really a third year seminary student?

Quote:
Originally posted by AEON


Seriously BVS - you have made some sweeping statements that could easily be understood by skimming through the Book of Acts or by actually (I dare say) reading Paul's letters.

I am just curious - Since I know you are not the biggest fan of Christianity - which moral view do you actually support?
Speaking of generalizations, when did I say I'm not a fan of Christianinity? I have studied the Bible a lot longer than you. I just don't happen to be a literalist. I think the Bible was inspired but by no means infallible. You may find this shocking but many Christians feel the same way.
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Old 11-17-2006, 10:07 PM   #135
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar

Obviously many many theologians disagree with you.
Sure. But many also agree. I think it is evident in the battle between Paul and the Judaizers:

Judaizers
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