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Old 11-17-2006, 05:59 PM   #106
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Originally posted by coemgen


Where's the concrete evidence of this. That's all I'm asking for!


where's the concrete evidence of your heterosexuality?

homosexuality exists. it always has, it always will.

what more evidence do you need?
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Old 11-17-2006, 06:03 PM   #107
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Originally posted by INDY500
Don't many lesbian feminists deny that their homosexuality is rooted in biology but instead view their sexuality as a political and empowering choice? A choice, as they see it, not to be victimized under traditional male patriarchy and by the societal objectification of women.

In fact, don't many lesbians resent the search for a "gay gene" or is that soooo 1990's?


there's such a thing as political lesbianism, but that's soooo 1970s.

lesbianism is a bit of a different beast than male homosexuality, just as male sexuality is different than female sexuality.

i can say without any hesitation that it's impossible for me to fall so emotionally in love with a woman that her anatomy becomes irrelevant to me in the way that a woman might be able to do with another woman, or another man (were she lesbian-identified).
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Old 11-17-2006, 06:06 PM   #108
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Originally posted by Irvine511




where's the concrete evidence of your heterosexuality?

homosexuality exists. it always has, it always will.

what more evidence do you need?
That's evidence that it exists. I already know that. Where's the evidence that it's natural? Just because it's existed forever doesn't mean it's natural.
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Old 11-17-2006, 06:08 PM   #109
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Originally posted by coemgen


That's evidence that it exists. I already know that. Where's the evidence that it's natural? Just because it's existed forever doesn't mean it's natural.


show me your straight gene.
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Old 11-17-2006, 06:20 PM   #110
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There may not be a straight gene, but the design of the penis and vagina working together for various reasons seems to be evidence of something.

(BTW, I know that sounds harsh. Not meant to be. Just trying to make a point.)
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Old 11-17-2006, 06:25 PM   #111
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


See this contradicts most of your posts. You always talk about how you don't believe in relativism, yet you support it here.

How is this any different from the belief that Christ spoke to the people in social customs they would understand? i.e. man and a woman
I think I have covered in great detail the difference between custom laws, ceremonial laws, and God's eternal laws. It is all there in the threads if you want to check it out.
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Old 11-17-2006, 06:26 PM   #112
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Well that's not the part I was talking about, what about the veils, and not allowing women to teach, just context?
Originally posted by AEON:
"We are called to serve another, to submit to each other, and to honor one another above ourselves."

+++++++
In a way the veil represents the idea above.

DIVINE HIERARCHY

God has established a hierarchy, in both the natural and the religious spheres, in which the female is subject to the male. St. Paul writes in 1st. Corinthians: "But I would have you know that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is the man, and the head of Christ is God (1 Cor. 11-3).

In the institution of marriage, God gave the husband authority over the wife, but responsibility to her as well. Not only is he the family’s decision-maker, but he is also responsible for the material and spiritual welfare of his wife and children. Man is not in this position to enslave or belittle his wife.

As the Bride (the Church) is subject to Jesus, women wear the veil as a sign that they are subjected to men: "Let wives be subject to their husbands as to the Lord; because a husband is head of the wife, just as Christ is head of the Church." (Eph. 5, 22-23) The man represents Jesus, therefore he should not cover his head.

However, this subjection is not derogatory to women, because in God’s kingdom everyone is subjected to a higher authority:

"For as the woman is from the man, so also is the man through the woman, but all things are from God." (1 Cor.11,12).
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Old 11-17-2006, 06:33 PM   #113
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Originally posted by BorderGirl


Originally posted by AEON:
"We are called to serve another, to submit to each other, and to honor one another above ourselves."

+++++++
In a way the veil represents the idea above.

DIVINE HIERARCHY

God has established a hierarchy, in both the natural and the religious spheres, in which the female is subject to the male. St. Paul writes in 1st. Corinthians: "But I would have you know that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is the man, and the head of Christ is God (1 Cor. 11-3).

In the institution of marriage, God gave the husband authority over the wife, but responsibility to her as well. Not only is he the family’s decision-maker, but he is also responsible for the material and spiritual welfare of his wife and children. Man is not in this position to enslave or belittle his wife.

As the Bride (the Church) is subject to Jesus, women wear the veil as a sign that they are subjected to men: "Let wives be subject to their husbands as to the Lord; because a husband is head of the wife, just as Christ is head of the Church." (Eph. 5, 22-23) The man represents Jesus, therefore he should not cover his head.

However, this subjection is not derogatory to women, because in God’s kingdom everyone is subjected to a higher authority:

"For as the woman is from the man, so also is the man through the woman, but all things are from God." (1 Cor.11,12).
And how did Christ show His authority? - by serving and giving His life. Christ washed the disciples’ feet to demonstrate his “authority”- a job left to the lowest of slaves at the time. He also went to the cross for the payment of sins He never committed. This is the sort of love a man is suppose to have with his wife.
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Old 11-17-2006, 06:35 PM   #114
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Nice post AEON.


And The Tonic, I'm working on a response. It's taking some time though.
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Old 11-17-2006, 06:37 PM   #115
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Quote:
Originally posted by coemgen
There may not be a straight gene, but the design of the penis and vagina working together for various reasons seems to be evidence of something.

(BTW, I know that sounds harsh. Not meant to be. Just trying to make a point.)
Ummm - Irvine...no need to post an answer to this - you know, of how well "A" fits into "B" - but the same could be said for just about anything you want to put in "B."

If you can't see that man and woman are the natural order of things - then you'll never see it because you don't want to see it. I suppose if I were in your shoes I would feel the same way as you do. I suppose...
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Old 11-17-2006, 06:39 PM   #116
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Originally posted by Irvine511




show me your straight gene.
straight legged jeans are making a comeback. Which is good - I hate bell bottoms.
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Old 11-17-2006, 07:03 PM   #117
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511




it's like disagreeing with red hair
We can't have any of that!!!
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Old 11-17-2006, 07:07 PM   #118
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Old 11-17-2006, 07:10 PM   #119
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Originally posted by AEON


I think I have covered in great detail the difference between custom laws, ceremonial laws, and God's eternal laws. It is all there in the threads if you want to check it out.
Actually you've always talked around them. You've never once actually addressed this subject.

Paul never defines nor speaks in different context when speaking about these issues. I can follow your logic when it comes to the veils, but it doesn't work when Paul speaks of women not being able to teach men. In fact that's exactly why many conservative denominations still don't allow women to preach. So your logic doesn't work here.
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Old 11-17-2006, 07:23 PM   #120
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Actually you've always talked around them. You've never once actually addressed this subject.

Paul never defines nor speaks in different context when speaking about these issues. I can follow your logic when it comes to the veils, but it doesn't work when Paul speaks of women not being able to teach men. In fact that's exactly why many conservative denominations still don't allow women to preach. So your logic doesn't work here.
Well - I don't have a problem with women teachers or preachers. If they speak in Spirit and in Truth - that is all that really matters. Many denominations disagree on this issue - I guess I am a little more "liberal" regarding this.

What do YOU think Paul means? Do you think he only wants men to teach? If so, why? Or do you think that perhaps having women teachers in these early churches would have caused too much of an uproar? But in the fullness of time - perhaps women teachers would be considered no big deal?

There is a difference between descriptive writing and prescriptive writing. I think Paul is being descriptive. Why? Because I don't see how women teachers goes against God's eternal law. Whereas homosexuality still falls under adultery.
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