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Old 02-14-2005, 07:42 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep



The question was posed by the moderator at an early Republican presidential debate in 1999: "Who is your favorite political philosopher?" George W. Bush declared, "Jesus Christ, because he changed my life."
Because W said it, it should mean what exactly?
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Old 02-14-2005, 07:43 PM   #62
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I think he swore like a son of a gun when he hit his hand with a hammer.
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Old 02-14-2005, 07:47 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally posted by paxetaurora
LOL, how did you know I'd be looking in on it?

I'll leave it open...for now.

Thacraic, I think everyone is right...this is meant to be a "what-if" sort of thread, nothing more. No need to take offense. I know it wasn't meant that way, as Dread is a very thoughtful and devout person.
I am not taking offense. I am though very passionate about things like this. I know that Dread didn't mean anything in starting this. I said that quite a few post ago. I did however question how he honestly thought it wouldn't lead into the debate that it did. And not question it as in doubt his sincerity but question it as in how he couldnt see it coming.
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Old 02-14-2005, 07:52 PM   #64
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Okay, well, point taken.

All I'm asking is that we do try to consider Dread's thread with an open mind.
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Old 02-14-2005, 07:57 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally posted by paxetaurora
Okay, well, point taken.

All I'm asking is that we do try to consider Dread's thread with an open mind.
OK. That is fair.
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Old 02-14-2005, 07:58 PM   #66
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thacraic,

If your intention is to convert atheists and agnostics I suggest you reconsider your approach. I am not open to your particular brand of diplomacy. Also you come across as quite an angry person.

I consider myself a Jeffersonian liberal, BTW.

regards,

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Old 02-14-2005, 08:09 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally posted by financeguy
thacraic,

If your intention is to convert atheists and agnostics I suggest you reconsider your approach. I am not open to your particular brand of diplomacy. Also you come across as quite an angry person.

I consider myself a Jeffersonian liberal, BTW.

regards,

financeguy
The way to convert people in my opinion is how one lives their life. You do not work with me, you do not live next door to me so you do not know anything about who I am. You have come to this conclusion based on what? I say things that you don't like?

I am not being diplomatic about this. I realize that. That is because I have chosen a side on which to stand and will not budge on this particular issue.

Well if I am coming across as angry over this...good. Some of what has been said does anger me. Is that not allowed? Just because someone gets angry about something like this it automatically makes them an all around angrey person?? Would you say the same about people that bashed Bush or Kerry during the election? My guess is no.

A Jeffersonian liberal. Ok. Then this thread should be right up your alley.
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Old 02-14-2005, 08:15 PM   #68
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Okay, PLEASE everyone take a deep breath.

financeguy, let's put aside our personal opinions and remember that even people with whom we disagree still have things to share.

thacraic, please try to check some of your anger at the door when you come to FYM.

Thank you both and everyone.
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Old 02-14-2005, 08:22 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally posted by paxetaurora
Okay, PLEASE everyone take a deep breath.

financeguy, let's put aside our personal opinions and remember that even people with whom we disagree still have things to share.

thacraic, please try to check some of your anger at the door when you come to FYM.

Thank you both and everyone.
Ok pax but I don't come here angry. And the anger I speak of is not like a rage or even like I don't know... mad even. It is irriated and frustrated more or less. I have in the past gotten really angry and my husband just shook his head in disbelief "its people on a computer Carrie", he said.

Anyway, I replied to one of your post just a few minutes ago on another thread, in between my posts here, and it was not in any way angry. So well, don't know what else to say other than I am not sitting here fuming over all of this.
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Old 02-14-2005, 08:29 PM   #70
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Probably goes without saying that I disagree with the majority of this post but
I think excercises of "what if" scenarios can be very educational and you miss out on opportunties by dismissing them. I won't get into certain points, I also think you misinterpreted Melon's post quite a bit.

Quote:
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The zeal comes from knowing Him personally which results in getting irritated when people want to change who He is to fit their neat little tidy view of what they think He is about.
I think this is the biggest load of crap, I have a friend who's a minister. One of the most Godly men I've ever know and THE LEAST zealous man I know. He knows when to talk and he knows when to listen. He can play "what if" scenarios and use them to educate himself and others around him and doesn't abuse every outlet possible and try to prove or express his beliefs.
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Old 02-14-2005, 08:30 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally posted by thacraic



Well if I am coming across as angry over this...good. Some of what has been said does anger me. Is that not allowed? Just because someone gets angry about something like this it automatically makes them an all around angrey person?? Would you say the same about people that bashed Bush or Kerry during the election? My guess is no.

I'm going on your own words, that's all.
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Old 02-14-2005, 08:44 PM   #72
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I am betting that he put up with a lot of crap from his mother for not getting married. Socially, at the time, it would have been a pretty big issue for him to deal with.
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Old 02-14-2005, 08:52 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
I am betting that he put up with a lot of crap from his mother for not getting married. Socially, at the time, it would have been a pretty big issue for him to deal with.


hmmmm ... bachelor at 33, good with his hands (carpenter ... and from which we can probably infer a good sense of interior design), his mother thought he was the son of God ... gosh, sounds familiar ...

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Old 02-14-2005, 08:53 PM   #74
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Because W said it, it should mean what exactly?

it meant that W hasn't ready any political philosophy, couldn't name a political philosopher off the top of his head, so he made something up on the spot.
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Old 02-14-2005, 09:02 PM   #75
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I don't think the zeal is over what others believe or don't believe. The zeal comes from knowing Him personally which results in getting irritated when people want to change who He is to fit their neat little tidy view of what they think He is about.

Christianity is outside of religous orthodoxy. I don't see your point in 1. And I take it what you mean by 2 is Conservative Christians come in and say wait a minute, hold on, that isn't right slow down here. That doesn't make any sense in relation to what Scripture says. God forbid someone try to use Scripture. Once they do that they are "holier than thou" or "making other Christians look bad". Whatfrigginever.


i think the problem is that you seem to take as inerrant fact what most people, even believers, understand as articles of faith. with faith, because it is a choice to believe in the face of doubt, should come some semblance of humility. not necessarily humility before god, but humility before your fellow person because you can't *know* that you, or your interpretations, are correct. you can believe, but you cannot know. and as well you should know that Scriptural interpretations are highly contested, and that there is no correct reading, simply a valid one (i.e., it can be defended, and is logically sound). i see many devout christians in here to compose scripture-based arguments and without any of the histrionics.

and who's to say that in "getting to know him personally" you haven't unknowingly fit him to some image you already had? your first paragraph constitutes a claim that you have a correct understanding, and that others are simply wrong in their interpretations because they are different from yours.

and how is Christianity outside of religious orthodoxy?



anyway, to get back to Dread ... i would regard the message of christ more highly if people would stop claiming inerrancy around the message. if it's a human message, than it is presented in human terms, in human langauge, and as such is as imperfect and fallable and powerful and filled with the idea of man battling against the void and trying to create order and reason and love out of what appears to be chaos. for man to do this, for the message to come from man, and not as some sort of microphone for a paternalistic God, is both far more beautiful, far more poetic, and probably far closer to the truth than claims of perfection, and inerrancy.
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