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Old 02-14-2005, 02:19 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511

removing the devine from Jesus, to me, makes the message that much more powerful. forget shock and awe from above; give me a heart pumping human blood and a mind wracked with doubt and uncertainty, show me the two working in tandem to make a better world.
What part of his message is stronger without the divinity?
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Old 02-14-2005, 02:20 PM   #47
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Old 02-14-2005, 02:20 PM   #48
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Old 02-14-2005, 02:23 PM   #49
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[Q]So let's be Thomas jefferson for a minute. Eliminate the divinity of Jesus, and make our own Bible. What do you feel the message of the man is?[/Q]

What the heck is ambiguous about ELIMINATE the Divinity?
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Old 02-14-2005, 02:26 PM   #50
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No one is saying the thread can't wander, NB...what we're saying is that I think a couple of people have taken the hypothetical nature a bit to heart, and that there's really no need to. That's all.
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Old 02-14-2005, 02:53 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox


What part of his message is stronger without the divinity?

i'm hardly a biblical scholar, but from what i remember from sunday school and some church attendence, the whole Golden Rule idea -- loving enemies, turning the other cheek, doing unto others, etc.

to me, that's more powerful coming from one human to another, than from the idea of a parental God. if man can find it in himself and, through rationality not divine intervention, understand that these rules are essentially what might save us from destroying each other, then that, to me, is immeasurably more powerful than "oh, God has something else he wants me to tell you."

perhaps Jesus, God living as man, understood better the plight of man, and modified his teachings, or learned more about the experience of being human. maybe this is why Jesus appears -- again, to me, i'm not a scholar, but i'm not totally unfamiliar with Christianity -- to be so much less judgemental, so much less fire-and-brimstone than the God of the old testament.

maybe God did walk a mile in our shoes. and it changed things.

i dunno. just thinking out loud.
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Old 02-14-2005, 03:17 PM   #52
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Originally posted by Dreadsox
thank you Angela........

I appreciate your post. You put into words EXACTLY how I feel about it.
You're welcome, and it's no problem at all .

Angela
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Old 02-14-2005, 04:52 PM   #53
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If I eliminate the Divinity, then I describe Jesus as follows:

A controversial rabbi who challenged the Pharisees (those of His time who emphasized the law, such as the "Judge Roy Moore" and Alan Keyes types of today),

but who also challenged the Saducees of His time (those who did not believe in The Ressurection, such as today's Bishop John Shelby Spong or Thomas Jefferson of 200 years ago).

Those were issues of controversy 2000 years ago and 200 years ago, just as they are today and tomorrow.

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Old 02-14-2005, 05:10 PM   #54
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Nice post.
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Old 02-14-2005, 07:06 PM   #55
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If I eliminate the Divinity, then I describe Jesus as follows:

A controversial rabbi who challenged the Pharisees (those of His time who emphasized the law, such as the "Judge Roy Moore" and Alan Keyes types of today),

but who also challenged the Saducees of His time (those who did not believe in The Ressurection, such as today's Bishop John Shelby Spong or Thomas Jefferson of 200 years ago).

Those were issues of controversy 2000 years ago and 200 years ago, just as they are today and tomorrow.

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Dang...that was not a bitch slap.....

That was the voice of a long lost friend.....

Peace my friend.
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Old 02-14-2005, 07:09 PM   #56
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I would say this to you then.....


It was his words that challenged both sides.......
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Old 02-14-2005, 07:15 PM   #57
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Originally posted by Irvine511
to me, that's more powerful coming from one human to another, than from the idea of a parental God. if man can find it in himself and, through rationality not divine intervention, understand that these rules are essentially what might save us from destroying each other, then that, to me, is immeasurably more powerful than "oh, God has something else he wants me to tell you."
I remember being a horny youth....oh so long ago...I said to my minister, Don, if Jesus went through this it means more to me that he was not divine, because I think that would give hom the edge in battling the lustful desires of my youth.
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Old 02-14-2005, 07:27 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox


I remember being a horny youth....oh so long ago...I said to my minister, Don, if Jesus went through this it means more to me that he was not divine, because I think that would give hom the edge in battling the lustful desires of my youth.

that's exactly what i'm talking about.

this is almost why, when it comes to Christ, i feel the divinity is incidental to the man.

a belief in God -- in the eternal soul -- is a much bigger deal, much more consequential in the grand, eternal, universe of things. what we can learn from Christ can be measured in human behavior, so why does killing each other over the divinity of the messanger make any difference?
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Old 02-14-2005, 07:38 PM   #59
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If "conservative Christianity" was really about a "personal relationship with God," then I don't understand their zeal to legislate their "personal relationship" onto others who disagree. Frankly, actions speak louder than words. As far as I'm concerned, it's empty rhetoric.

But that's besides the point. I'm not going to comment on your personal beliefs, because I don't know you. I'm disappointed that this thread became what it did, and this always seems to be the trend:

1) Dreadsox tries to make people think about religion outside of orthodoxy.

2) Conservative Christians come in, refuse to entertain anything outside rigid orthodoxy, and then ruin the thread for the rest of us.

I shouldn't be surprised. This happened with his marriage thread, as well. If you didn't like this thread, you could have either ignored it or started a thread on Jesus' "divine" characteristics. This thread is about Jesus' "human" characteristics. If Jesus is 100% divine and 100% human, according to orthodox beliefs, then it is worth debating as to what made Jesus "human."

Melon
I don't think the zeal is over what others believe or don't believe. The zeal comes from knowing Him personally which results in getting irritated when people want to change who He is to fit their neat little tidy view of what they think He is about.

Christianity is outside of religous orthodoxy. I don't see your point in 1. And I take it what you mean by 2 is Conservative Christians come in and say wait a minute, hold on, that isn't right slow down here. That doesn't make any sense in relation to what Scripture says. God forbid someone try to use Scripture. Once they do that they are "holier than thou" or "making other Christians look bad". Whatfrigginever.

And of course it would happen on that marriage thread. I saw that but I chose not to even bother with it because I knew I would not be able to keep my mouth shut in relation to what the Bible says. This thread on the other hand is not about a certain biblical teaching this thread is about Jesus and that is when the gloves come off.

What I am getting here is this. On certain threads Conservative Christians should just keep out of it because this is Free Your Mind and if you don't have something to say that is radical or progressive you just need to shut yo mouth and sit down or go start your own damn thread. I mean how can your mind possibly be free if you are embracing a fundemental view of Christianity? Wake up! Its the 21st century you have to change things to accomodate YOU and the SOCIETY in which you live! Bollox.

I can't think of anything MORE radical than the Bible. What God would have us do is contrary to everything human nature is about. Your comments on Jesus being 100% human are not accurate. While here on earth He was 100% physically a human being. He grew tired, he grew hungry, thristy etc, but His nature was not human in any way, it was 100% divine. His message did not come from His human need of food or water it came from His divine nature and that is what makes Him so unique. That is what also makes it impossible to seperate the divinity from the man in order to see His message. It can not be done if one wishes to embrace what Jesus taught wholly and completely.

As far as ignoring it well if I did that, it would go against who I am. I speak my mind when I feel the need to. If you don't like it there is little I can do to accomodate you.
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Old 02-14-2005, 07:41 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Wow, did you get this offended as a child when you were asked to use your imagination or play "what if" games?
Well it isn't exactly the same as saying what if the sky were purple.
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