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Old 10-25-2006, 06:09 PM   #31
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Originally posted by redhotswami


I don't think this is all gun control will do. I don't share the same sentiments of paranoia and hopelessness for humanity.
You know, you've been sarcastic and rude to me this thread, but I haven't been to you. What gives?
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Old 10-25-2006, 06:13 PM   #32
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Originally posted by Liesje
On the street where I grew up, a kid shot and killed his 4 year old cousin. If I could go back and give up my right to own guns so that that could've been prevented, I'm fine with it.

A harsh reality I'm all too familiar with. That's why I too advocate so much for gun control. I'd rather be prohibited to own assault weapons than to lose another neighbor, child, friend to an accidental gun related death.
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Old 10-25-2006, 06:15 PM   #33
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Banning assault rifles is reasonable. Banning all guns is not.
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Old 10-25-2006, 06:26 PM   #34
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest
You know, you've been sarcastic and rude to me this thread, but I haven't been to you. What gives?
Whoa whoa. That statement wasn't intended to be sarcastic and rude to you. However since that is how it made you feel, I apologize. I understand though, because I interpreted your "type handmade guns in google" as a sarcastic and rude response, because I took it as you assuming I knew nothing of the topic. Thats why I responded with the "gee thanks" or whatever. But with you saying "I haven't been to you", I see now that wasn't your intention.

Such is how things roll in communication limited to text.

Anyway, the "paranoia and hopelessness in humanity" isn't intended to be sarcasm. That's honestly how I feel. When people tell me they feel the need to own guns to protect themselves from other people...honestly, I don't know what else to call that but paranoia and hopelessness. I know that bad things can happen, but I try very hard to give people the benefit of the doubt, and to have faith in them. That's just the way I was brought up. Those are my spiritual principles, is all.

I'm not saying I do it all the time. I'm certainly not perfect. I even put up a defense mechanism with you when I thought you were being sarcastic with me. However...I could never use a gun as a defense mechanism.

I feel as though owning a gun to protect oneself from other people is too fearful of a way for me to live. I don't want to go through life weary of others and mistrusting them to the point where I feel like I need the gun. I don't value my life over anyone else's and could never shoot a gun at someone to exercise that.
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Old 10-25-2006, 06:27 PM   #35
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest
Banning assault rifles is reasonable. Banning all guns is not.
I edited my post I was trying to use a different term bc I was tired of typing gun all the time. But I didn't want it to be misinterpreted, so I changed it back to "gun".
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Old 10-25-2006, 06:41 PM   #36
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest
Banning assault rifles is reasonable. Banning all guns is not.
I support banning ANY gun that is not one kept by a law enforcement officer or is not a hunting rifle. I don't support a citizen's rights to carry concealed guns. I don't support a citizen's right to keep a handgun at home for "protection." All hunting rifles should be strictly regulated and required to be kept in locked gun cabinets.
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Old 10-25-2006, 10:53 PM   #37
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I don't know. I'm pretty convinced that tighter gun laws and more restricted access to guns means less gun violence and less gun deaths. I'd be curious to know if Switzerland's gun laws are as loose as those in the United States.

There's actually a third group that concerns me far more than the dichotomy between the "law-abiding gun owners" and the "gun-toting criminals." It's a third group--good people who own a gun who have too much to drink, or who lose their temper and do something they'll later regret, the children of law abiding gun owners who pick up a weapon not properly stored, the law abiding gun owner who in a fit of rage or resentment becomes a gun toting criminal. It's this wide ranging third group that is my reason for supporter gun control laws.

I've been there. My high school buddies growing up in Central Florida were all avid gun owners and collectors. I have lots of fond memories of heading out to the wilds to do some target shooting and I've had a chance to shoot just about every gun imaginable. And I won't say it wasn't fun. We were generally a responsible group, and we certainly never thought to commit any crimes with our guns (though, I know we did do some unwise things in our handling of guns, being teenagers and all. We were lucky that no accidents happened). What changed my perspective on gun control was when one of my best friends, a stand up guy if ever I've met one, almost shot some people at a party because he'd mistakenly thought they'd molested his girlfriend. By the grace of God, his dad showed up and was able to wrestle him into his car before he shot someone. This is a good, decent guy who got really pissed and had a gun. In fact it's this sense of "I need a gun to protect myself and my loved ones" that can lead to the near-tragedy typical of this third group of gun owners.

Here in Saipan, gun ownership is limited to rifles. Hand guns are only allowed to be handled by law enforcement as far as I know. And I can tell you that while there is the occasional gun death, they are very rare, especially the "third group" type deaths that I've described above. We have crime here, much of it tied to the gambling industry, but it's not like armed criminals are free to run roughshod because of the unarmed and defenseless population.

Last year three people were murdered behind the school where I teach. They were stabbed to death by a disgruntled gambler during a dispute that turned ugly, and the murderer was shot by a police officer during the altercation. I'm glad that the officer was armed with a gun and glad that the killer wasn't. If the killer had had a weapon he would have been able to kill more people before he was stopped, it would have placed him on equal footing with the officer thus placing the officer in more danger (as it was he was stabbed in the arm), and a stray bullet could have harmed one of our students who were just yards away when this happened (I don't know of too many stray knives).

I agree with Lies.
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Old 10-25-2006, 11:14 PM   #38
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What always gets me about anti-gun control nuts is that they don't want their "rights" being infringed upon, that "big brother" is tracking them.

Yes, same said crowd, like the rest of us, will stand in line for hours at the DMV to register our cars, get our records checked, be tested that we can use the potentially dangerous piece of equipment in a competent manner, prove that we are indeed still the registered owner, carry insurance for the equipment, do not have DUI's, etc. Yet somehow to do the same for guns is some kind of inalienable-rights infringement ? Wackos....
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Old 10-25-2006, 11:20 PM   #39
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Originally posted by toscano
What always gets me about anti-gun control nuts is that they don't want their "rights" being infringed upon, that "big brother" is tracking them.

Yes, same said crowd, like the rest of us, will stand in line for hours at the DMV to register our cars, get our records checked, be tested that we can use the potentially dangerous piece of equipment in a competent manner, prove that we are indeed still the registered owner, carry insurance for the equipment, do not have DUI's, etc. Yet somehow to do the same for guns is some kind of inalienable-rights infringement ? Wackos....
What always gets me is it's "peace loving christians" who always need the guns...

Wackos
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Old 10-25-2006, 11:25 PM   #40
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I think guns end up hurting way more people than they intend. Very good point about the gambling murder.

Quote:
but it's not like armed criminals are free to run roughshod because of the unarmed and defenseless population.
Very interesting. If all guns are outlawed, I don't think that will mean the law-breakers will run amock killing unarmed people. Since it is outlawed, it will be enforced. I'm not saying it will be impossible to get (or build) a gun, but it will be less accessible and thus result and less gun deaths, be they accidental or intentional.
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Old 10-26-2006, 09:36 AM   #41
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


What always gets me is it's "peace loving christians" who always need the guns...

Wackos
I'm sure you can provide a source showing that the majority of gun-related homocides are caused by peace-loving Christians.

Failing that I'm sure you can provide a source showing it's self-avowed "peace loving Christians" who are the only ones who need guns.

Wacko.
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Old 10-26-2006, 11:20 AM   #42
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Originally posted by redhotswami


Whoa whoa. That statement wasn't intended to be sarcastic and rude to you. However since that is how it made you feel, I apologize. I understand though, because I interpreted your "type handmade guns in google" as a sarcastic and rude response, because I took it as you assuming I knew nothing of the topic. Thats why I responded with the "gee thanks" or whatever. But with you saying "I haven't been to you", I see now that wasn't your intention.

Such is how things roll in communication limited to text.
Thanks. And I apologize for making you feel I was being rude to you. My intention was just to pint you to a source that had lots of info about homemade guns, but I can see why you would think otherwise.

Quote:
Originally posted by redhotswami
Anyway, the "paranoia and hopelessness in humanity" isn't intended to be sarcasm. That's honestly how I feel. When people tell me they feel the need to own guns to protect themselves from other people...honestly, I don't know what else to call that but paranoia and hopelessness. I know that bad things can happen, but I try very hard to give people the benefit of the doubt, and to have faith in them. That's just the way I was brought up. Those are my spiritual principles, is all.
But I think that you misunderstand people who support the right to own guns. Most of us aren't sitting here worrying and fearful that someone's gonna break into our houses and kill us. We're no "paranoid" about that. But we do know that bad things happen, and believe in the right to be prepared to defend ourselves in case, God forbid, something like that does happen.
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Old 10-26-2006, 11:22 AM   #43
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


What always gets me is it's "peace loving christians" who always need the guns...

Wackos
The truth is that I've never jeard of a paficist, be it a Christian or NonChristian, supporting gun control.

I'll admit that I'm not a pacifist; I believe that sometimes aggressive force is necessary.
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Old 10-26-2006, 11:24 AM   #44
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Originally posted by maycocksean
I don't know. I'm pretty convinced that tighter gun laws and more restricted access to guns means less gun violence and less gun deaths. I'd be curious to know if Switzerland's gun laws are as loose as those in the United States.
Well, I knew that Switzerland was full of guns, so I looked it up, and found this article:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1566715.stm

Guns are deeply rooted within Swiss culture - but the gun crime rate is so low that statistics are not even kept.
The country has a population of six million, but there are estimated to be at least two million publicly-owned firearms, including about 600,000 automatic rifles and 500,000 pistols.

This is in a very large part due to Switzerland's unique system of national defence, developed over the centuries.

Instead of a standing, full-time army, the country requires every man to undergo some form of military training for a few days or weeks a year throughout most of their lives.

Between the ages of 21 and 32 men serve as frontline troops. They are given an M-57 assault rifle and 24 rounds of ammunition which they are required to keep at home.

Once discharged, men serve in the Swiss equivalent of the US National Guard, but still have to train occasionally and are given bolt rifles. Women do not have to own firearms, but are encouraged to.

Few restrictions

In addition to the government-provided arms, there are few restrictions on buying weapons. Some cantons restrict the carrying of firearms - others do not.

The government even sells off surplus weaponry to the general public when new equipment is introduced.

Guns and shooting are popular national pastimes. More than 200,000 Swiss attend national annual marksmanship competitions.

But despite the wide ownership and availability of guns, violent crime is extremely rare. There are only minimal controls at public buildings and politicians rarely have police protection.

Mark Eisenecker, a sociologist from the University of Zurich told BBC News Online that guns are "anchored" in Swiss society and that gun control is simply not an issue.

Some pro-gun groups argue that Switzerland proves their contention that there is not necessarily a link between the availability of guns and violent crime in society.

Low crime

But other commentators suggest that the reality is more complicated.

Switzerland is one of the world's richest countries, but has remained relatively isolated.

It has none of the social problems associated with gun crime seen in other industrialised countries like drugs or urban deprivation.

Despite the lack of rigid gun laws, firearms are strictly connected to a sense of collective responsibility.

From an early age Swiss men and women associate weaponry with being called to defend their country.
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Old 10-26-2006, 11:40 AM   #45
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But we do know that bad things happen, and believe in the right to be prepared to defend ourselves in case, God forbid, something like that does happen.
I mean, I can see your statement about having the right to defend ourselves...Like I said, we all have our own defense mechanisms, but I just can't convince myself to that a gun is necessary to defend myself.

And what scares me too is that now it is spilling into our university campuses here in the United States. Utah is starting a trend, and others are picking up on it. Why why WHY does someone think it is a good idea to allow guns in an environment where alcohol pours as freely as the rain? Does it really comfort someone to know he/she can carry his/her gun to class??? Is that really necessary?
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