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Old 04-04-2003, 07:24 AM   #16
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FW- Sorry I made unfair assumptions about you based on your remarks. Yes, every death is a tragedy.

Chizip- I'm so glad somebody brought that up. Bono would never have behaved so ridiculously. You can make your point a lot better and get more respect and results acting like Bono instead of Eddie.

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Old 04-04-2003, 09:20 AM   #17
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let's be fair to PJ here. There was an arena with 12,000 people and dozens left during the encore, which HAPPENED to be the same time he did this. How many of us have left a show a bit early to get out of the parking lot quicker? So what? 11,500 people stayed for the entire show and didn't have to be at work early the next morning or get home to pay the baby sitter. How is this a story?

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Old 04-04-2003, 09:29 AM   #18
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Originally posted by YellowKite
I am reading this great book - very current stuff - and the most enlightening thing is how the rest of the free world views the actions of the Bush administration. The same country that spent 2 years concerned about Clinton's sex life [and were ready to impeach him for it] are oblivious to the hypocrisy of not being as concerned about the current administrations' immoral [in my opinion] policies.


"the primary response . . as voiced in the media . . [is] a ready made accusation of 'Anti-Americanism' employed to silence anyone who questions the views of the current administration. . . virtually everyone to whom I spoke [in the foreign media] . . .took offense at 'the extraordinary, almost staggering moral self-righteousness of this administration' toward the good opinion of the democratic world."

-Eric Alterman from What Liberal Media? The Truth About Bias and the News
very true...
it seems to me like 90% of america are Bush apologists
The guy has made - and is making many mistakes-...I wonder how long people can turn the blind eye?
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Old 04-04-2003, 10:46 AM   #19
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i guess i'm in the 10% that sees no need to appologize for anything bush has done so far... but this is supposed to be a thread about eddie vedder's antics in denver the other night, so let's get back to the actuall topic at hand here.

i love pearl jam... but frankly they're begining to bore me. they so hard not to be popular it's just become a joke at this point. that being said, i still have tickets to the july 8 show at MSG, and plan on attending... for now. what eddie did showed no class and was out of line. i'm going to wait and see what his reaction is to all of this. i'm thinking that a very emotional eddie had a little too much to drink, as he's been known to do in the past, and just let loose. i'm hoping that's what the case. freedom of speech is one thing... but what eddie did is not right. i put it on the same level as burning the flag. if he continues to do this kind of thing at the next few PJ shows, then i'm going to have to give my ticket to someone else.
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Old 04-04-2003, 12:11 PM   #20
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Pearl Jam Statement

Statement from Pearl Jam
April 3, 2003

There were close to 12,000 people at the April 1st Denver show. It’s possible two dozen left during encore but it was not noticeable amongst the 11,976 who were loudly applauding and enjoying the evening’s music. It just made a better headline to report otherwise. [You’ll note the writer doesn’t mention this in his review of the show from the day prior. See “Pearl Jam Show Will Make a Great CD” by Mark Brown, Rocky Mountain News. And it is little more than a mention in any of the show reviews.

Dissension is nothing we shy away from – it should just be reported about more accurately. Ed’s talk from the stage centered on the importance of freedom of speech and the importance of supporting our soldiers as well as an expression of sadness over the public being made to feel as though the two sentiments can’t occur simultaneously.


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Old 04-04-2003, 01:19 PM   #21
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good stuff, i love pearl jam.
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Old 04-05-2003, 02:03 AM   #22
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest

The story IS the impaling. That's sick, and evidently even people who paid good money to go one of his concerts agree.
So, a lot of fans , who are against the war, got a lot more value for money.
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Old 04-05-2003, 12:17 PM   #23
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"Incensed fans" = about 12, according to CNN today. A very poorly written article, with an obvious pro-war bias.

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Old 04-05-2003, 12:26 PM   #24
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incensed fans or just in a hury because they wanted to beat traffic, this was during the encore remember!
send lawyers, guns and money...
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Old 04-05-2003, 04:37 PM   #25
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Personally, I say go, Eddie.

"Did someone just say, 'Shut up'? I don't know if you heard about this thing called freedom of speech, man. It's worth thinking about it, because it's going away,"


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Old 04-06-2003, 08:29 AM   #26
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lets see how this plays out...

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Old 04-06-2003, 09:58 AM   #27
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whoz pearl jam

new rock band or what ??

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Old 04-06-2003, 10:18 AM   #28
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Originally posted by Headache in a Suitcase
i guess i'm in the 10% that sees no need to appologize for anything bush has done so far...
Same here. *goes back to lurking*
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Old 04-06-2003, 12:20 PM   #29
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senrab / headache:

I guess we're not "just" takling about G.W. Bush and exclude his past?

But still:

Human rights violations like these?

...Amnesty International has today written to the US Government reiterating its deep concern in relation to the continuing detention without charge or trial of more than 600 non-US nationals in the United States naval base in Guantánamo Bay, Cuba.

"Some of these detainees have been in a legal black hole for almost a year", Amnesty International pointed out.

"Their conditions of detention -- held in small cells for up to 24 hours a day with no access to lawyers or family -- together with no indication as to if, or when, they will be tried or released, continue to raise urgent legal and welfare issues," the organization added.

Amnesty International calls for the voluntary repatriation of all those detained as combatants during the international armed conflict in Afghanistan, as required under the Geneva Conventions, unless they are to be charged with criminal offences or would face serious human rights abuses if returned to their country....

or see:

or :

" 2 April 2003
Use of Cluster Bombs -- Civilians Pay the Price

Amnesty International is deeply concerned about the high toll of civilian casualties and the use of cluster bombs in US military attacks in heavily populated areas."

i was thinking for a long time wether to post a picture to this or not, but the fact that maybe people who are not used to "non-video-game" war pics are reading here i decided not to publish these pictures of ugly warfare.

than some older facts, Bush government boycoting the ICC and trying to force 3rd world countries to do so either.

" International law prohibits the use of the death penalty against anyone who was under 18 years old at the time of the crime. The USA is today virtually the only country prepared to flout this principle."...
Amnesty International reports that 12 of the 17 recorded executions of juvenile offenders worldwide since 1998 took place in the US. The only three juvenile offender executions worldwide in 2002 were carried out in the US.

"International human rights norms tell us that most governments worldwide believe a juvenile offender can be held accountable without being put to death," said Vaughn.

"Oklahoma set a poor example by executing Sean Sellers, the only juvenile offender in the US to be executed in the last 25 years for a crime committed when he was 16," said Karin Lau, AIUSA Death Penalty Abolition Coordinator in Oklahoma. "The Board of Pardons and Paroles should now seize the opportunity to uphold human rights standards and recommend clemency for Scott Hain."

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Old 04-06-2003, 06:37 PM   #30
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If you're going to trash Bush, Klaus, be fair. Find those pics of the tortured, executed US POW's, and the Kurds gassed by Saddam Hussein and post them! It's things like this that are making Saddam a 'martyr.' Show him for what he is. So Bush isn't perfect, but by attacking him and not Saddam, it makes it look like Bush is the bully and the Iraqis are victims who have done no wrong. Please, be fair. I'm not saying don't post these pics, just show the other side.

If Vedder doesn't understand why no one believes he supports the troops, let me enlighten him: when you hate and condemn everything someone is doing, it is generally a fact that you do not support their efforts. Perhaps a better word for him to use would be 'worry' or 'care about the troops' or 'wish them home safely.' but he is NOT 'supporting' them by cursing everything they stand for, and their actions. "Concern," yes, "support," no.

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