Duke University Suspends Entire Lacrosse Team Due To Rape Allegation - Page 9 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 04-14-2006, 08:29 AM   #121
Blue Crack Addict
 
MrsSpringsteen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 24,837
Local Time: 06:27 PM
Where did you see her on an interview? I haven't heard that she gave any interviews, but I haven't really been keeping up to date on this situation. Was it local in NC?
__________________

__________________
MrsSpringsteen is offline  
Old 04-14-2006, 11:19 AM   #122
Blue Crack Distributor
 
Headache in a Suitcase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: nyc
Posts: 51,711
Local Time: 05:27 PM
as far as i know the only interview conducted with the woman was by someone from the duke school newspaper, and it wasn't broadcasted on TV, and we still don't know her name.

but we now do have a police recording stating that the woman was "passed-out drunk" and refusing to leave someone else's car in the parking lot of a grocery store...

Quote:
In a police recording in the hours following the party, an officer describes the woman from the party as "just passed-out drunk."

The taped conversation, obtained by The Associated Press, took place about 1:30 a.m. March 14, about five minutes after a grocery store security guard called 911 to report a woman in the parking lot who would not get out of someone else's car.

The officer gave the dispatcher the police code for an intoxicated person and said the woman was unconscious. When asked whether she needed medical help, the officer said: "She's breathing and appears to be fine. She's not in distress. She's just passed-out drunk."

No charges have been filed, but District Attorney Mike Nifong has said he believes a crime was committed.

Attorneys for the players have said DNA tests failed to connect any players to the alleged attack, and they have urged Nifong to drop his investigation. But several defense attorneys say they expect the district attorney to ask a grand jury Monday to issue charges.

Defense lawyers have said time-stamped photographs taken by the players show that the accuser was drunk and already had injuries when she arrived at the party.

The recording is consistent with "what I have seen of the photo evidence before," attorney Kerry Sutton said. Those photos, she said, showed that she was "way beyond where you would put somebody behind the wheel of a car."

The description of the woman's medical exam -- which Nifong has said is his basis for believing a rape occurred -- does not mention her being drunk. It states only that the woman's injuries and behavior were consistent with having been raped, sexually assaulted and having suffered a traumatic experience.

The woman has told police she and another stripper hired to dance at the party arrived at 11:30 p.m. March 13. The pair reportedly left the house a short time later, fearing for their safety. The accuser told police the two were coaxed back into the house with an apology, at which point they were separated. That's when she said she was dragged into a bathroom and raped, beaten and choked for a half hour.

At 12:53 a.m., police received a 911 call from a woman complaining that she had been called racial slurs by white men gathered outside the home where the party took place.

The defense has said it believes the second dancer at the party made that call. The 911 call from the grocery store security guard was placed at 1:22 a.m.

In it, the caller says, "Um, the problem is ... it's a lady in somebody else's car and she will not get out of their car. She's like, she's like intoxicated, drunk or something. She's, I mean, she won't get out of the car, period."

Police spokeswoman Kammie Michael declined to comment on the contents of the radio traffic.

if the woman was in such a state of intoxication, how can she accurately describe the events of that night? esp. considering she claims she was raped in such a close proximity of time to when she was found passed out drunk in someone else's car?

if this woman was raped... which i still believe there is a possability that she was... all of the evidence that's been released points to someone other than the lacrosse players.

unless the DA has some sort of bombshell, smoking gun piece of evidence that they're not telling anyone about, i don't know how any jury would convcit anyone from the duke lax team in this case.
__________________

__________________
Headache in a Suitcase is offline  
Old 04-18-2006, 08:49 AM   #123
Blue Crack Addict
 
MrsSpringsteen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 24,837
Local Time: 06:27 PM
Two 20-year-old Duke University lacrosse players were arrested early Tuesday on charges of raping and kidnapping a stripper hired to dance at an off-campus party.

Reade Seligmann posted a $400,000 bond and Collin Finnerty was in the process of doing so for the same amount, said Col. George Naylor of the Durham County jail. By posting bond, the players avoided making an initial court appearance later in the day.

Earlier, Seligmann, a 6-foot-1 sophomore from Essex Fells, N.J., and Finnerty, a 6-foot-3 sophomore from Garden City, N.Y., were led out of separate police cruisers in handcuffs. One was wearing a suit jacket, the other was in dress shirt and jeans.

Seligmann is "absolutely innocent," said his attorney, Kirk Osborn. "He's doing great. That's all I have to say."
__________________
MrsSpringsteen is offline  
Old 04-18-2006, 11:01 AM   #124
Blue Crack Distributor
 
Headache in a Suitcase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: nyc
Posts: 51,711
Local Time: 05:27 PM
this DA better have some real good evidence that he's kept out of the public eye... because with everything that's out there there is no way he'll get a conviction, and with these indictments that could lead to a riot in durham.

i still just hope that justice is, indeed, being done here, and that the DA isn't just continuing to pursue this for political gains in an election year.
__________________
Headache in a Suitcase is offline  
Old 04-18-2006, 03:47 PM   #125
Blue Crack Addict
 
Liesje's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: In the dog house
Posts: 19,555
Local Time: 05:27 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Headache in a Suitcase
this DA better have some real good evidence that he's kept out of the public eye... because with everything that's out there there is no way he'll get a conviction, and with these indictments that could lead to a riot in durham.

Maybe the defendents are eligible for a Grand Jury trial to see whether a crime even occured? I've only followed this case based on what's posted here, but it looks like they were arrested, not indicted?
__________________
Liesje is online now  
Old 04-18-2006, 04:42 PM   #126
Blue Crack Distributor
 
Headache in a Suitcase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: nyc
Posts: 51,711
Local Time: 05:27 PM
the DA went before a grand jury on monday and the grand jury handed down indictments on these two kids. the alleged third attacker has not been charged because the woman cannot identify him.

the defense lawyers say that they have proof that the two people indicted weren't even at the location at the time the raped supposedly took place.

who the hell knows at this point... all i know is that based upon the evidence that's been made public i'd never convict either of these two kids. if there's more evidence that the DA is holding until trial? fine... bring it out, convict them, and let them rot in jail... but nothing like that's been made public yet.
__________________
Headache in a Suitcase is offline  
Old 04-18-2006, 05:11 PM   #127
Blue Crack Addict
 
redkat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: racing to the waterside
Posts: 19,620
Local Time: 03:27 PM
if the grand jury handed down an idictment there must be more evidence than has been leaked.
__________________
redkat is offline  
Old 04-18-2006, 05:26 PM   #128
Blue Crack Addict
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 29,682
Local Time: 05:27 PM
whether they raped the woman or not (probably not), the guys do sound like major league assholes.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 04-18-2006, 09:16 PM   #129
Blue Crack Addict
 
Liesje's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: In the dog house
Posts: 19,555
Local Time: 05:27 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Headache in a Suitcase

who the hell knows at this point... all i know is that based upon the evidence that's been made public i'd never convict either of these two kids. if there's more evidence that the DA is holding until trial? fine... bring it out, convict them, and let them rot in jail... but nothing like that's been made public yet.
Well if the Grand Jury indicted, then there must be substantial evidence. These kinds of trials can take months and months. If I were the DA and had plenty of evidence, I'd be reluctant to lay it all out in the open because this is a pretty publicized ordeal and if everything is leaked to the press, it will be impossible to even convene an impartial jury.
__________________
Liesje is online now  
Old 04-18-2006, 09:39 PM   #130
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,070
Local Time: 03:27 PM
A Grand Jury inictment doesn't mean a more substantial level of evidence exists. It usually signals that the DA wants to avoid a preliminary hearing, where evidence is exposed to the defense earlier in the game.
__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 04-18-2006, 10:41 PM   #131
Blue Crack Addict
 
Liesje's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: In the dog house
Posts: 19,555
Local Time: 05:27 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
A Grand Jury inictment doesn't mean a more substantial level of evidence exists. It usually signals that the DA wants to avoid a preliminary hearing, where evidence is exposed to the defense earlier in the game.
But there must at least be enough evidence for the jury to feel a crime was commited?
__________________
Liesje is online now  
Old 04-18-2006, 11:54 PM   #132
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,070
Local Time: 03:27 PM
Some evidence to bring a case. A very low hurdle at this point.
__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 04-19-2006, 09:51 AM   #133
Blue Crack Distributor
 
Headache in a Suitcase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: nyc
Posts: 51,711
Local Time: 05:27 PM
so sayeth interference's official legal counsel.

apparently the indictments were brought against these two boys because of a photo identification by the alleged victim. i do believe the defense wasn't even allowed to present their side at the grand jury hearing... nbcrusader can correct me on that if i'm wrong.

one of the attorney's for the accused has already stated that they have time stampted photos, bank records, cell phone records and the statements of a taxi cab driver that proves that at least one of the boys wasn't even at the party at the time the alleged victim claims the crime took place.
__________________
Headache in a Suitcase is offline  
Old 04-19-2006, 09:59 AM   #134
Blue Crack Addict
 
MrsSpringsteen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 24,837
Local Time: 06:27 PM
Whether these two (three if the other is indicted) are guilty or not, it is important to think and to talk about the issue of rape and the larger issues surrounding it. Most rape victims are still telling the truth (according to most reports of statistics regarding false accusations) and most still don't even report it. Yes this thread is about this case but the surrounding issues are always there. When you've held someone in your arms who has been raped, it never leaves you. I can only imagine (thankfully) what it is like to have actually been raped. I'm sure we all feel that way lest anyone think I believe otherwise.

Food for thought..

The dark side of fantasies

By Ted Weesner Jr. | April 19, 2006

Tempting though it may be to stash the alleged incident involving the Duke University lacrosse team in a box labeled ''Southern old boys gone wild," we should all be wary of such willed obliviousness. The alleged rape and kidnapping of a stripper hired to dance at an off-campus party could easily play out in any New England college town. As a creative writing teacher at several area universities, it's not hard to see a connection between the fantasies of fiction and the suspended reality that a booze-soaked party invites. Whether in fiction or in group-drink, there's a sense that anything goes: This is the make-believe talking.

Every semester I have the pleasure of witnessing and helping to ferry along earnest, complex, and wonderfully artistic creative efforts. Like many writing teachers, I try to turn my young charges toward material with which they've had some direct experience. A belief of Nabokov's, that by age 10 we have enough raw material to write for a lifetime, helps to illustrate this truth, as does Whitman's mission: to vivify the contemporary fact.

And yet it's not uncommon to encounter rough drafts of stories that traffic in casual misogyny and even outright sadism. It would seem to take only a little toxic extrapolation, including the requisite vacuum of oversight and a dose of the entitled air that athletes and frat boys can feel they breathe, and it's not such a reach to see these dystopias on paper translated into varieties of reality.

In recent weeks I encountered one story where a protagonist imagines beheading a foul-smelling colleague, and another where a character dumps and mistreats his girlfriend because she won't provide the quick access he demands. Almost always these submissions are made by male students; just as unfailingly, these students are smart, polite, and friendly.

Of course the point can be made that males between the ages of 18 and 22 often have dark fantasy lives. And it can also be granted that playing out subversive scenarios can exhilarate, as seen in the work of Hunter S. Thompson, William F. Burroughs, even Eminem. And yet there's a vital difference between art with some perspective or frame and raw displays of brutality. Where those artists' work can strike one as original and innovative, the misanthropic and occasionally repulsive narratives spun out by young, beginning (male) writers almost always smack of someone else's fantasy. Instead of following the useful writing dictum to ''write what you know," they have often stitched together some pastiche of actions and images plucked from sitcoms, movies, and the Internet.

It's actually more difficult not to come across the rough fantasies playing out online. After all, it takes only an errant tap of the return key on ''spam" to find oneself in the midst of a reenacted near-rape. One can only imagine that those Duke lax players and perhaps all of us in lax moments have encountered the bewildering vertigo of having fantasy both made for you and, by its very profuse existence, imbued with legitimacy. What is shocking and morally toxic seeps in, suggesting that it's tolerated and even acceptable. With almost anything fair game in the virtual realm, is it such a leap to see that a band of privileged athletes might think an assault is no big deal, with no real consequences in sight?

No one who has spent any time in a college seminar would dispute that the climate of what is acceptable has changed. Today's students, both male and female, feel more comfortable talking about sex. This is not an unhealthy development. At the same time, shouldn't we make our young people aware of the true dimensions and implications of what the Internet and the broader culture are trying to sell? It may appear cheap, easy, and exhilarating to hit the return key and have wild fantasies dropped whole in your lap. But if we're even some part unaware, the price is much higher.

Ted Weesner Jr. is a writer based in Somerville.
__________________
MrsSpringsteen is offline  
Old 04-19-2006, 10:03 AM   #135
Blue Crack Distributor
 
Headache in a Suitcase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: nyc
Posts: 51,711
Local Time: 05:27 PM
from abcnews.com
Quote:
April 19, 2006 — On Monday, they were indicted for allegedly raping and kidnapping a 27-year-old woman at an off-campus party. On Tuesday, they turned themselves in and were released from custody after posting a $400,000 bond. For Duke University sophomore lacrosse players Collin Finnerty and Reade Seligmann, a long legal battle has just begun.

Over the last few days, sources close to the defense have given ABC News an exclusive look at the evidence behind one player's alleged alibi — evidence that includes electronic records, photographs and witness statements. If that material is authentic, it could prove that it was practically impossible for him to rape, kidnap or assault the alleged victim.

Seligmann's argument is simple: He is innocent and he has an alibi. He attended the party that night, but documents, photos and witness testimony show that he wasn't there long enough or at the right time to attack the alleged victim.

Around midnight the night of March 13, Seligmann was already at the party when two women hired from a local escort agency arrived to dance for the boys — $400 each for a two-hour performance. A series of time-stamped photographs viewed by ABC News show the girls dancing at midnight and at 12:02 a.m.

By 12:24 a.m., a receipt reviewed by ABC indicates that Seligmann's ATM card was used at a nearby Wachovia bank. In a written statement to the defense also reviewed by ABC, a cabdriver confirms picking up Seligmann and a friend a block and a half from the party, and driving them to the bank.

What did Seligmann do after leaving the bank? The taxi driver remembers taking him to a drive-thru fast-food restaurant and then dropping him off at his dorm. Duke University records show that Seligmann's card was used to gain entry at 12:46 a.m.

In addition to bolstering Seligmann's alibi, the taxi driver's written testimony provided a rare glimpse of color in an otherwise darkened night.

"I remember those two guys starting enjoying their food inside my car, but I'm glad I end up with a nice tip and fare $25," the taxi driver said in his testimony.

ABC News traced the steps of Seligmann's story, timing how long it took to get from place to place. In repeated trials, the drive between the Wachovia branch and the corner where the cab picked him up took approximately five minutes. This suggests that Seligmann must have left the house by around 12:19 a.m.

So, Seligmann's alibi suggests, he and the alleged victim were in the house together for less than 20 minutes. According to defense sources, based on the alleged victim's affidavit, all of the following would have transpired within that time period: She and her dance partner performed for several minutes, left after feeling threatened by the boys' growing "excited and aggressive," returned after being persuaded by team members to dance some more, and then she was forced into a bathroom, beaten and raped.

Within those same minutes, phone bill records reviewed by ABC show that the defendant's cell phone made at least two outgoing calls.

Seligmann and his co-defendant were presumably among the players identified by the alleged victim last Thursday. According to defense attorneys, the prosecution said the woman picked out two of her alleged attackers with 100 percent certainty and one other attacker with 90 percent certainty while examining pictures. But did Seligmann have the time, much less the will, to commit a violent, sexual crime?

Though he was indicted, Seligmann is presumed innocent until a jury says otherwise. No one knows what evidence District Attorney Mike Nifong will bring as he looks to convict Seligmann and Finnerty. If that conviction occurs, the two young men face mandatory jail time. Whether the evidence above will clear their names — in either a court of law or in the court of public opinion — will become clear in the weeks and months to come.
this kid must multi-task well to have accomplished all that he's alleged to have done in about 19 minutes time... minus the time he took to make a couple of phone calls, of course.
__________________

__________________
Headache in a Suitcase is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:27 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com