Duke University Suspends Entire Lacrosse Team Due To Rape Allegation

[MrsSpringsteen]

Looks like the case is going forward anyway, well that is the party line now. The prosecutor has an obligation to continue, if every rape case (and other cases) was dropped after there was no DNA, well the guilty ones would have free reign. She also had a rape exam at the hospital and we don't know what other evidence exists (if any).

Sure the prosecutor might have political motives, save face motives (that would be my guess unless there is other good evidence) but he also knows the other evidence and seemingly still thinks she is credible. If he is just putting on a facade, I would think he career would be in jeopardy because of that. In that case maybe the case will be dropped soon.

Sure not all college and professional athletes are sexist pigs and/or rapists, but maybe it's time for those who aren't to stand up and be vocal, to go on a crusade of sorts against rape, sexism, and mistreatment of women. Seems to me they might want to. Some do and I truly admire that.

And I went to a high school in which the athletes received preferential treatment, without a doubt-it was crystal clear. Luckily I went to a small, non NCAA college and got away from all of that.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

while i'm sure that there are prof's out there who are sympathetic towards athletes and let them slide here and there, i'm equally sure that there are prof's who feel that athlete's get too much of a break and feel they have to be harder on the athlete in order to negate that.

there are poli-sci prof's who give benefits to those who share their political beliefs... male prof's who give advantages to men, male prof's who give advantages to the flirty chicks with the big boobies, femanists who feel anything with a penis is evil, etc. etc. etc. if you develop a personal relationship with one of your prof's, he/she is probably more likely to give you the benefit of the doubt over someone who did an equal amount of work but was more introverted and kept to himself. there is no such thing as a level playing field.

 

[Liesje]

there are poli-sci prof's who give benefits to those who share their political beliefs... male prof's who give advantages to men, male prof's who give advantages to the flirty chicks with the big boobies, femanists who feel anything with a penis is evil, etc. etc. etc. if you develop a personal relationship with one of your prof's, he/she is probably more likely to give you the benefit of the doubt over someone who did an equal amount of work but was more introverted and kept to himself. there is no such thing as a level playing field.

Yup, I agree.

Sometimes though I think the minimum academic standards for athletes are a little too relaxed. For my HS, you only needed a 1.5. Personally, I think anything below a 2.5 is low. Luckily, most athletic teams have average GPAs that exceed the school's average.

 

[swizzlestick]

What I think based on the evidence in the media:

I don't think the teams season should have been cancelled until after a verdict. We are all innocent until proven guilty, scandal or not.

However, I think the correct course of action was taken with the coach resigning (or being forced to resign). The coach is usually the fall guy in all sports.

I don't think this girl got raped. I think said got pissed at a few facial slurs to the point when she left, she fabricated this story and said 'I'm going to show them'.

If how I feel is true, what she has done has hurt women everywhere that actually DO get raped. It's the boy who cries wolf. Or in this case....The stripper who cries rape.

Just my opinion at this point. That could change tomorrow.

 

[BVS]

I don't think the teams season should have been cancelled until after a verdict. We are all innocent until proven guilty, scandal or not.

They gave up their rights to continue playing when they all refused to comment or collaborate with officials.

 

[Liesje]

I don't think this girl got raped. I think said got pissed at a few facial slurs to the point when she left, she fabricated this story and said 'I'm going to show them'.

Just b/c there's no DNA doesn't mean a crime didn't occur.

 

[redkat]

Just b/c there's no DNA doesn't mean a crime didn't occur.

I'm confused here how this dna test means there was no rape

I don't know if there was or wasn't but we don't know enough to draw a conclusion.

and I happen to love jocks

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

They gave up their rights to continue playing when they all refused to comment or collaborate with officials.

wait a sec here... every one submitted to a DNA test. other than that, if they didn't do it, what is there to comment on other than "we didn't do it?"

people object to the players on the team "lawyering up," but frankly, if you were accused of something so heinous, wether you did it or not, if you didn't go get a lawyer immediately you'd be a complete moron.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

I'm confused here how this dna test means there was no rape

I don't know if there was or wasn't but we don't know enough to draw a conclusion.

and I happen to love jocks

well the story wasn't that she was assaulted by an object... it was that she was raped, thus why they went for the DNA test in the first place. that is why this lack of DNA is so damning to the prosecution.

and secondly, if DNA tests came back negative, then they obviously had some sort of DNA smaple to compare the tests to. so they have DNA, it just doesn't belong to any of the players.

it's still very much a possability that she was raped... but the odds that she was raped by one of these lacrosse players are not very good, unless of course the attorneys are lying.

 

[BVS]

wait a sec here... every one submitted to a DNA test. other than that, if they didn't do it, what is there to comment on other than "we didn't do it?"

people object to the players on the team "lawyering up," but frankly, if you were accused of something so heinous, wether you did it or not, if you didn't go get a lawyer immediately you'd be a complete moron.

There's a difference between saying, "I didn't do it", to remaining silent.

At that point when they all decided to remain silent, what other choice did the school have? This still could be an ongoing case throughout the season.

A DNA test in this type of case really doesn't tell the whole story...

 

[Liesje]

A DNA test in this type of case really doesn't tell the whole story...

Exactly. And to play devil's advocate...say there was a DNA match...no doubt we'd hear the word "consensual".

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

look i happen to agree with the school that the season should have been suspended until the resolution of the case. i'm just saying i have no problem with the kids hiding behind a lawyer because i would do the same thing, esp. if i was innocent.

the problem with the DNA test is that the entire time it was what we were wating for... what the DA, the Duke president, even the team captians... were all waiting for. and now it comes back negative, and all of a sudden the DA doesn't need it anymore? something's wrong there..

 

[redkat]

I didn't think the story was specific as to the type of rape. I thought rape with a foreign object is still considered a rape charge?


When a rape kit is done they are going to take DNA no matter what even if the type of rape means there likely won't be any.

well the story wasn't that she was assaulted by an object... it was that she was raped, thus why they went for the DNA test in the first place. that is why this lack of DNA is so damning to the prosecution.

and secondly, if DNA tests came back negative, then they obviously had some sort of DNA smaple to compare the tests to. so they have DNA, it just doesn't belong to any of the players.

it's still very much a possability that she was raped... but the odds that she was raped by one of these lacrosse players are not very good, unless of course the attorneys are lying.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

she claimed to have been held down, choked, beaten, and gang raped by three white men...

how zero dna could transfer in such a brutal attack, hey... i don't know. maybe it's possible, but i highly doubt it, and so will any jury.

with all that's already leaked in this case, if she alleged it was done with a foreign object, i think we would have heard about it already.

 

[corianderstem]

Well, if she was indeed raped, couldn't the attackers have worn condoms? I don't know if someone caught up in a gang mentality would take the time to put one on, but if this was the case, it might explain the lack of DNA evidence.

 

[Irvine511]

but if she were gang raped by 3 people, and she most likely fought back, there would he hair samples on her clothes, skin samples underneath her fingernails ... it's not just the presence of ejaculate that is the only DNA evidence available for a rape case.

there would also be evidence of condom use, i'm guessing (lube, spermacide, etc.), but i haven't heard about that one way or the next.

insofar as being raped by the Duke players, there doesn't seem to be a terribly strong case to be made against them.

 

[BVS]

Well, if she was indeed raped, couldn't the attackers have worn condoms?

Exactly! It's not as if she would really know if they did or didn't.

There have been plenty of rapes done with condoms. Even when rapes are done with condoms, DNA tests are often used to scare someone into admitting.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

but if she were gang raped by 3 people, and she most likely fought back, there would he hair samples on her clothes, skin samples underneath her fingernails ... it's not just the presence of ejaculate that is the only DNA evidence available for a rape case.

there would also be evidence of condom use, i'm guessing (lube, spermacide, etc.), but i haven't heard about that one way or the next.

insofar as being raped by the Duke players, there doesn't seem to be a terribly strong case to be made against them.

thank you.

 

[corianderstem]

but if she were gang raped by 3 people, and she most likely fought back, there would he hair samples on her clothes, skin samples underneath her fingernails ...

That's true. I wonder if they ran DNA tests on the fake fingernails they found at the scene.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

i would assume and hope that they would/did.

 

[BVS]

but if she were gang raped by 3 people, and she most likely fought back, there would he hair samples on her clothes, skin samples underneath her fingernails ... it's not just the presence of ejaculate that is the only DNA evidence available for a rape case.

there would also be evidence of condom use, i'm guessing (lube, spermacide, etc.), but i haven't heard about that one way or the next.

insofar as being raped by the Duke players, there doesn't seem to be a terribly strong case to be made against them.

This is true, but she may never had a chance to fight back. I also wonder when she came forward, did she bathe or wash her clothes before?

Let's also keep in mind that she was a stripper and was entertaining, therefore could have had DNA under her nails, on clothes, etc and could have easily been disputed.

This is why rape cases are so often so hard to prove or disprove. Many times it will come down to their word against hers.

If there was a rape, it seems like the only means of conviction would be if someone's conscious catches up with them and comes forward.

We may never know the truth.

 

[corianderstem]

I was watching one of the news channels the other day (I can't even remember which one, but there was a shrill, annoying woman as the host, which could be any number of news channels), and they were discussing the DNA test results.

The host kept harping on a washcloth found in the bathroom, and how it had DNA all over it. The guest maintained this was nothing unusual, because it was in the bathroom where the boys lived. She kept reiterating this, and you could tell she was dying to say the TV-unfriendly version of her point.

The host wouldn't let it go and maybe she didn't get it, and I was waiting for the guest to snap and finally say, "It's a washcloth in the young men's bathroom! Do you think they don't masturbate?"

I know this situation is vastly unfunny, but something about the guest's frustration and restraint struck me as amusing.

 

[Irvine511]

The host wouldn't let it go and maybe she didn't get it, and I was waiting for the guest to snap and finally say, "It's a washcloth in the young men's bathroom! Do you think they don't masturbate?"

I know this situation is vastly unfunny, but something about the guest's frustration and restraint struck me as amusing.

young men masturbate?



i really hope this thing doesn't get turned into a circus, and i'm well aware of the strained and already racialized town/gown relationship between Duke and Durham.

 

[WildHoneyAlways]

I assumed that the DNA tests done were from the rape kit.

I, too, find it difficult to imagine that there was no transfer of DNA during a 3 person gang rape. We'll see I guess.

 

[corianderstem]

i really hope this thing doesn't get turned into a circus, and i'm well aware of the strained and already racialized town/gown relationship between Duke and Durham.

Call me a pessimist, but I don't think there's any way this can come out in a good way. If the Duke students are found guilty, that will only reinforce some people's stereotypes and strain the Duke/Durham relationship further.

If the Duke students are acquitted, that would likely reinforce some people's stereotypes about the victim (whether the stereotype is based on her skin color, gender, class status or profession) and strain the Duke/Durham relationship further.

I don't think there's much good that can come out of this, no matter what happens.

 

[Irvine511]

I don't think there's much good that can come out of this, no matter what happens.

sadly, i think you're right.

 

[Shaliz]

I assumed that the DNA tests done were from the rape kit.

I, too, find it difficult to imagine that there was no transfer of DNA during a 3 person gang rape. We'll see I guess.

If there was DNA to do a test on in the first place, then it must belong to someone...the Duke players or otherwise. It is possible that a rape occurred, for which there is DNA evidence, but it just doesn't match any of the lacrosse team members. I mean, the fact that they did a DNA test means there was DNA to test.

 

[WildHoneyAlways]

If there was DNA to do a test on in the first place, then it must belong to someone...the Duke players or otherwise. It is possible that a rape occurred, for which there is DNA evidence, but it just doesn't match any of the lacrosse team members. I mean, the fact that they did a DNA test means there was DNA to test.

Well, not necessarily. If they are testing swabs they may not be able to tell if there is genetic matter on it. Same with fingernail scrapings.

 

[Shaliz]

Well, not necessarily. If they are testing swabs they may not be able to tell if there is genetic matter on it. Same with fingernail scrapings.

True.

Have any of the lawyers said whether there was no DNA or whether it just didn't match?

 

[lateforwork]

I think they didn't pay her enough and she decided to lie and now is soaking up her four seconds of fame, but the truth is, the Lacrosse team is getting way more spotlight than her... I could be wrong, and I would be eternally sorry, but I saw her on an interview and she seemed really fake and LOVING the attention, and after all my psych classes, she didn't fit a victim MO at all.