Duke University Suspends Entire Lacrosse Team Due To Rape Allegation

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BrownEyedBoy said:
But I´m sure police has a means of finding the truth without pitting friends against each other.

The truth is more important than friendship, well to me it is. Who wants to be friends with people who expect you to cover for them when they are involved in wrongdoing? Alleged wrongdoing in this case of course until proven otherwise. You have to answer to yourself, to your own moral principles and conscience and not to your friends- after all you have to live with yourself long after those friends are gone.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12080776/

"A Durham City police search warrant affidavit, released yesterday, describes the accusations: "The victim reported that they began to preform [sic] their dance in master bedroom area. After a few minutes, the males watching them started to get excited and aggressive," according to the police affidavit.

The dancers, concerned for their safety, left the house but returned after one player came out and apologized. Once inside, "Two males ... pulled her into the bathroom. Someone closed the door to the bathroom where she was and said, 'sweet heart you can't leave.' The victim stated she tried to leave and the three males force fully held her legs and arms and sexually assaulted her" for about half an hour as she was "hit, kicked and strangled," according to the police affidavit, which only uses first names. The affidavit does not say what happened to the second dancer.

Police are investigating the crimes of first degree forcible rape, first degree kidnapping, first degree forcible sexual offense, common-law robbery and felonious strangulation."
 
BrownEyedBoy said:
I do hope so too. But I´m sure police has a means of finding the truth without pitting friends against each other.

That's simply not true in cases of rape. Good lawyers can convince jury's she wanted this to happen if there is in fact DNA evidence it doesn't help a whole lot.

Local case: rich boys rape a girl get it on video AND get off. She was promiscuous in the past so the jury lets them go. Seeing her raped with a pool cue wasn't enough.

It helps a whole lot to have eyewitnesses willing to tell the truth!
 
redkat said:

Local case: rich boys rape a girl get it on video AND get off. She was promiscuous in the past so the jury lets them go. Seeing her raped with a pool cue wasn't enough.

It helps a whole lot to have eyewitnesses willing to tell the truth!

Unbelievable.
 
Headache in a Suitcase said:


in this country you are still innocent until proven guilty, not the other way around

Yes I'm aware of that headache- I guess I should have said "unless and until proven otherwise" gee sorry, I have some personal things weighing heavily on my mind, it might be nice to cut some slack once in a while rather than trying to nitpick at things that I say.

I said "alleged wrongdoing until proven otherwise"-meaning alleged until they are proven guilty I see nothing wrong with what I said
 
redkat said:
Local case: rich boys rape a girl get it on video AND get off. She was promiscuous in the past so the jury lets them go. Seeing her raped with a pool cue wasn't enough.

It helps a whole lot to have eyewitnesses willing to tell the truth!

If you are referring to the Greg Haidl case, all three boys were convicted - but it took 2 trials and they received rather lenient sentences considering the evidence.

Separately, an unusual civil case has been filed against one of the defense attorneys for his extreme actions in defending the boys (including accusations of stalking and intimidating the victim).
 
nbcrusader said:


If you are referring to the Greg Haidl case, all three boys were convicted - but it took 2 trials and they received rather lenient sentences considering the evidence.

Separately, an unusual civil case has been filed against one of the defense attorneys for his extreme actions in defending the boys (including accusations of stalking and intimidating the victim).


I was waiting for you :wink:

after the first trial and following it so closely I stopped reading about it. It made me sick. I know they were finally convicted but they got off very leniently in my mind. Didn't the prosecution end up dropping the more serious charges?

That whole case was dirty.

My point though is the group mentality and boys protecting each other.
 
MrsSpringsteen said:


Yes I'm aware of that headache- I guess I should have said "unless and until proven otherwise" gee sorry, I have some personal things weighing heavily on my mind, it might be nice to cut some slack once in a while rather than trying to nitpick at things that I say.

I said "alleged wrongdoing until proven otherwise"-meaning alleged until they are proven guilty I see nothing wrong with what I said

whatever your ongoing problem with me is is frankly getting really sad. whatever i did in the past to piss you off this much, i'm sorry. but all i did was make a statement and you went and twisted it as to me nitpicking at something you said.

i tried to PM this or e-mail this, but you aren't allowing it. i was just attempting to clarify a statement. nothing more, nothing less. i'm sorry if that's a problem for you.
 
Sorry but I find that you do nitpick at me, and that is tired and sad. Maybe it comes across that way when you don't mean it that way, part of that is your past history of doing that-which you don't agree that you have done. So that's that, no need to drag it out any longer. I clarified what I posted so there's your answer :)
 
our lone issue was over my idiotic postings 2 years ago when the red sox were about to win the world series that i've appologized in the sports forum for a million times already. i don't follow you around looking to pick out little tidbits of your posts to jump on. i have better things to do with my time, thank you. and you did clarify your statement, thank you. and yes, there is no need to drag this out longer.
 
MrsSpringsteen said:
According to the Raleigh News & Observer, a neighbor heard one person at the party shouting at the alleged victim as she left the house after the alleged assault: "Thank your grandpa for my cotton shirt.''

*Blinks*

Wow. Just...wow. Real mature, that person's words...

Gotta agree with others here, too, if I knew someone who was involved in this sort of thing, I'd gladly distance myself immediately from them. If they committed a crime, they deserve to be punished for it, I don't care if I know them personally or not. And I really hope that all those who were involved in this horrible activity get the appropriate punishment for their crimes. Idiots.

Angela
 
BrownEyedBoy said:


I probably miswrote what I was trying to post. But basically what I was trying to say is that my input would only be used if it was truly the last resort.

I would hate to be the one responsible for putting my friend behind bars even if it´s the right thing to do. Basically, I was trying to understand why the teammates are keeping quiet.

I guess peer pressure might also have a lot to do with it. If one of the players said something they would be seen differently by their remaining teamates, I´m sure.

I´m sure it might seem like the right thing to say that I would rat out a friend like that, but truly speaking, I would hate to be in a position where I was (somewhat) responsible for putting a friend behind bars.

You actually value a friendship with someone who likes to gang rape a woman? You're more worried about how other people think of you than other people's health, safety, and right not to be sexually assaulted? You're honestly saying that if your friends raped, threatened, and strangled a girl that was close to you, you'd feel bad about having to testify???

Wow.....
 
to be fair, if you found out that a very close friend of yours did something like this, very few of us would immediately run to the police, even though we all say we would.

i wouldn't... i'd be in shock for a little while, then i would confront the person, and then after a day or two if i was confident that he really did it, i'd turn the little fucker in.

when it's someone who's incredibly close to you, there's bound to be a short period of shock and denial before one faces up to the truth of the situation and ultimately does the right thing.

if it was just someone who i knew, or a teammate that i wasn't really tight with? i'd have turned 'em in right away.
 
BrownEyedBoy said:
Thanks, Headache. I´m not as articulate as many of you in English but you´ve pretty much summed up the feeling I´ve been wanting to explain.



i think English language skills need to be kept in mind here. i doubt many of us could express ourselves as well in Spanish as BEB does in English. so i'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.
 
Irvine511 said:




i think English language skills need to be kept in mind here. i doubt many of us could express ourselves as well in Spanish as BEB does in English. so i'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Good point. I'm a linguistic klutz myself. In fact, I've spent time during the last week e-mailing Turks asking about English speakers in Turkey. If you want help with any foreign language don't look at me!
 
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0405061duke1.html

feel free to start tearing them a new one now... even without the dna results.

it is a little odd that just half an hour after the rape supposedly took place that one of the people allegedly involved was back sitting in his dorm room sending out e-mails. :shrug: who knows... it certainly doesn't look good.
 
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the e-mail is very strange... it deffinetly seems sick, but his lawyer claims that the e-mail makes the writter seem that he was unaware of any alleged rape that had went on, which i can kinda see... it reads as if the writer was annoyed at the strippers, and it looks like he sent it to the entire team... would someone be that stupid to sent an e-mail like that after what allegedly occured just happened? :shrug: i don't know... like i said, it doesn't look good any way you slice it up, but there are still a ton of unanswered questions.
 
Ugh.

I really hope these allegations turn out to be false, certainly because of the awfulness of what purportedly happened, but also because Durham is a real powder keg already where tensions between students and locals are concerned. My older brothers both went to Duke, and they lived off-campus together with some friends one year in a poor black neighborood--which was also a neighborhood where a lot of white students rented houses--and both of them have a lot of bad memories of the social discomfort there. One of them got punched in the face once by another (drunk, white) student who he'd laid into at a party for the extreme disrespect he showed towards some black neighbors who had come by to complain about the noise and unruliness of some guys at the party. That kind of stuff really builds up. Unfortunately, it's a pattern that characterizes student-local relations at a lot of universities.
 
Headache in a Suitcase said:
to be fair, if you found out that a very close friend of yours did something like this, very few of us would immediately run to the police, even though we all say we would.

i wouldn't... i'd be in shock for a little while, then i would confront the person, and then after a day or two if i was confident that he really did it, i'd turn the little fucker in.

when it's someone who's incredibly close to you, there's bound to be a short period of shock and denial before one faces up to the truth of the situation and ultimately does the right thing.

if it was just someone who i knew, or a teammate that i wasn't really tight with? i'd have turned 'em in right away.

Well, I guess if anything this helps explain why so many rapes and sexual assaults are never appropriately dealt with.
 
yolland said:
Ugh.

I really hope these allegations turn out to be false, certainly because of the awfulness of what purportedly happened, but also because Durham is a real powder keg already where tensions between students and locals are concerned. My older brothers both went to Duke, and they lived off-campus together with some friends one year in a poor black neighborood--which was also a neighborhood where a lot of white students rented houses--and both of them have a lot of bad memories of the social discomfort there. One of them got punched in the face once by another (drunk, white) student who he'd laid into at a party for the extreme disrespect he showed towards some black neighbors who had come by to complain about the noise and unruliness of some guys at the party. That kind of stuff really builds up. Unfortunately, it's a pattern that characterizes student-local relations at a lot of universities.

While I understand what you mean, I also kind of hope the allegations are true (although I know that sounds sick). The reason I hope this is that if this isn't true it will make it even harder for rape victims to speak up and report the crimes.
 
DURHAM, N.C. (AP) -- Time-stamped photographs will show an exotic dancer was already injured and "very impaired" when she arrived at a party where she claims she was raped by members of Duke University's men's lacrosse team, an attorney for one of the players said Sunday.

Durham attorney Bill Thomas said some of the photographs, taken when she arrived at the house, indicate the woman was injured before getting to the party March 13. They show extensive bruises and scrapes on her legs, especially around the knees, he said.

"This young lady was substantially impaired. She had fallen several times during the course of the evening," Thomas said.

He declined to identify the player he represents and said he would not release the photos, taken by at least two cameras, until pending DNA tests are completed.

He also wouldn't say whether the photos were taken by a lacrosse team member or someone else; court documents have indicated that only team members were present at the party.

No one has been charged in the case, but the allegations that members of the nearly all-white team raped the woman, a black student at a nearby university, have rocked both Duke and Durham.

The allegations have led to the resignation of coach Mike Pressler, the cancellation of the lacrosse season and the suspension of one player from school.

Several dozen people gathered Sunday outside the house where the party took place, and pledged to return each Sunday until the case is resolved.

"Whether I want to believe it, or whether you want to believe it, something took place in there," said Johnny Williamson, 36, of Durham. "Something indecent took place."

District Attorney Mike Nifong, who was expected to return this week from an out-of-town conference and has not commented on the case in the past several days, has said previously he is confident a rape occurred. Court documents said a medical exam of the alleged victim found injuries consistent with sexual assault.

The victim has not returned repeated messages seeking comment, but her father said Sunday she hasn't changed her story.

"I expect them to say that," he said of the lawyers' contentions his daughter is lying.

The woman and the other dancer arrived separately, Thomas said, and performed briefly before leaving. The victim told police she and the other dancer left because they feared for their safety, but were later convinced to come back inside.

Thomas said the photos contradict the alleged victim's assertion she was scared, as they show her standing at the door of the off-campus house with "a major grin on her face" as she tried to get back inside.

"People inside the house have stated she was banging on the door, attempting to regain entry," Thomas said.

The woman told police she was pulled into a bathroom and assaulted after coming back into the house. But Thomas said the woman locked herself in the bathroom, where police later found her purse, cell phone, and several artificial fingernails she claimed to have lost during a struggle with her attackers.

Thomas said one of the attorneys representing team members had interviewed the other dancer extensively, and she said the alleged victim never told her about a rape.

"All of these statements you've heard ... about this brutal assault, rape, kidnapping and robbery which occurred, I believe that the public will soon be able to learn the truth, and that these allegations are totally false and without merit," Thomas said.

Both the team's captains and attorneys for team members have said the DNA tests, which may be completed this week, will prove the allegation are false. The players' attorneys also have raised other questions about the allegations, saying e-mails written in the hours after the alleged attack will help prove the players' claims that nothing happened that night.

Attorneys also have raised suspicions about a 911 call, made shortly after the alleged attack would have occurred, from a black woman who claimed someone at the party shouted racial slurs at her and a friend. The caller alternatively told police the pair were driving and walking past the house. Thomas said Sunday he and other attorneys believe the second dancer at the party made the call.

"These young men have been absolutely vilified in the press," Thomas said. "I think this week we will go a long ways toward clearing these young men's names. I can assure you that this has been a nightmare for each and every one of them."
 
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