Drunk Driving

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BonoVoxSupastar said:


Right, but we don't know what actions have been taken up to this point...what kind of jail time should we be looking at? Keep in mind suspending a license won't stop a person from driving either.
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He was driving without a license, it had been suspended a while ago.

I tried looking online for the article but I can't find it. Not that it really matters, this happens way more than we think. In this area alone they talked about several people who have records like this.
 
Thank you BAW. :hug: What an incredibly difficult story. Living through it must have been horrible. :sad: No one deserves to see or be a part of something so mindlessly tragic.

People say "one or two beers" are ok, but one or two beers are all it takes to skew judgement, ruin perception and reaction time. It is a difficult situation, especially with alcohol having such a firm grip on people (i.e. people are dependent on it socially, and I'm not speaking just alcoholics) but it's apparent something needs to be done.If not on the prevention side then on the punishment side. Bonoman is right that the judicial systems are seriously missing the step in these cases.
 
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BonoVoxSupastar said:
I agree rehab only works on those who want it, but the courts order rehab all the time. But this guy has a serious problem.

What's worse trying to rehabilitate and one falling off the wagon and doing it again, or one spending a few months in jail and getting out and doing it again? Try to fix and fail or time out and fail, I'd rather try to fix, but that's just me.
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You know, we don't know this man is an alcoholic. These incidents could have happened just after nights of drinking like anyone would do, except he chose to get in a car and drive. He needs to be punished for the crime, which is drunk driving. He needs to be thrown in jail. He needs the punishments to get worse every time. So they've taken his license away - big deal. He obviously has no problem still driving.

That said, I don't think that that was the case. He obviously does have a serious problem with alcohol. If we're going to rehab then rehab from prison. But this jackass needs punishment, before does it again and kills someone.
 
oliveu2cm said:


You know, we don't know this man is an alcoholic. These incidents could have happened just after nights of drinking like anyone would do, except he chose to get in a car and drive. He needs to be punished for the crime, which is drunk driving. He needs to be thrown in jail. He needs the punishments to get worse every time. So they've taken his license away - big deal. He obviously has no problem still driving.

That said, I don't think that that was the case. He obviously does have a serious problem with alcohol. If we're going to rehab then rehab from prison. But this jackass needs punishment, before does it again and kills someone.
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I don't know how anyone can argue "semantics" about drunk driving after reading the story BAW posted, let alone the COUNTLESS other stories we hear dayafterdayafterday.

No offense to anyone here, but I just don't understand that...
 
Bonoman this isn't directed at you, but I think the BAC in your province of .08 is excessive. Some people aren't obviously going to be 'drunk' if they are at that, but being drunk is not the starting point for being relatively incapable of driving.
Lets assume a fellow is for all intents and puropses drunk after 8 beers. His reading might be .06. How many beers before number 8 were his reflexes affected? He may stop at number 6, knowing he is under the legal limit, assuming he is ok to drive. the law says he is, so he drives. Unbeknownst to him, while he can walk and talk well, his mind is as sharp as he feels it could possibly be. How does he know though that this is actually the case until it is tested? Does it require a car coming at him from a T-Section to test his reaction time? Many things can affect our reflexes. Fatigue, alcohol, stress, distractions and so on. We are affected by alcohol long before we reach 'the drunk stage' and will not have a clue how acutely we have been affected until it is tested. Unfortunately, it is most often tested the hard way when it is going to be tested at all. I just dont think a standardised level of BAC levels is any kind of indication. It has huge room for error and that is even without taking into account what it takes to be actually 'drunk'.
 
oliveu2cm said:

People say "one or two beers" are ok, but one or two beers are all it takes to skew judgement, ruin perception and reaction time.
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See thats the thing i dont believe this to be true in most cases. I dont think it skews judgement in most people and it doesnt ruin reactrion time.
 
Angela Harlem said:
Bonoman this isn't directed at you, but I think the BAC in your province of .08 is excessive. Some people aren't obviously going to be 'drunk' if they are at that, but being drunk is not the starting point for being relatively incapable of driving.
Lets assume a fellow is for all intents and puropses drunk after 8 beers. His reading might be .06. How many beers before number 8 were his reflexes affected? He may stop at number 6, knowing he is under the legal limit, assuming he is ok to drive. the law says he is, so he drives. Unbeknownst to him, while he can walk and talk well, his mind is as sharp as he feels it could possibly be. How does he know though that this is actually the case until it is tested? Does it require a car coming at him from a T-Section to test his reaction time? Many things can affect our reflexes. Fatigue, alcohol, stress, distractions and so on. We are affected by alcohol long before we reach 'the drunk stage' and will not have a clue how acutely we have been affected until it is tested. Unfortunately, it is most often tested the hard way when it is going to be tested at all. I just dont think a standardised level of BAC levels is any kind of indication. It has huge room for error and that is even without taking into account what it takes to be actually 'drunk'.
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I completly agree with you.

BAC isnt the be all and end all. There can be so many contributing factors that are not taken into consideration. I know that i can have 4 beers and be fine but you might have 4 beers and be stumbiling around. I do disagree with you that, if i understand you courectly, that peolpe are affected when they take that first sip of beer(i know you didnt say that but it seems like your implying it.)

Also, what is drunk anyways. I see drunk as being not able to function at all. While some think buzzed is drunk.
 
bonoman said:


See thats the thing i dont believe this to be true in most cases. I dont think it skews judgement in most people and it doesnt ruin reactrion time.
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Drinking does increase reaction time, even drinking only a small amount. While it might not be noticeable to a person, even a small increase in reaction time might be the difference between a person being able to avoid an accident and being involved in an accident.

It's just the same with speeding: driving five miles over the speed limit might not seem like a lot, but it can add something like 10m to the distance it takes the driver to stop which would make all the difference if they were trying to avoid something like a child running into the street.

Sorry, but I have absolutely *no* tolerance for people who drink and drive: if they choose to risk their lives it's one thing but I have no time for people who think they have the right to risk the life of everyone else in a car or walking along the street just because they felt like having a drink that evening.

*Fizz.
 
Underestimating the impairment caused by even small amounts of alcohol is a great danger. Too often, I hear the "I made it home safely" as the justification for further drinking and driving.
 
Should the same punishment(whatever you believe to be a fair one) be extended to those who should wear glasses and don't when they drive, the elderly who just plain can't, inexperienced drivers, those on medication, and those who can't multi-task and are smoking or talking on the cell phone? Because all of these have the same dimishment of reaction time and awareness than having one or two drinks IMO.
 
IMO people who talk on cellphones while driving a car should get punished, as should those who are smoking or doing anything else which takes their attention away from the road.

But how can you punish someone for being an "inexperienced driver"? Everyone who drives was inexperienced at some point, but would you say if they had an accident they ought to be punished more severely than a more experienced driver?

Not drinking and driving is *so* simple and it can so obviously make driving safer. I don't see what is so hard in telling people that if they wish to drive a car then they can't drink alcohol. Is it really such a huge inconvenience to people to have to go without alcohol for an evening? Considering how many people are killed every year by drink drivers, I hardly think expecting drivers to show a little responsibility is too much to ask.

*rant over*
 
FizzingWhizzbees said:
IMO people who talk on cellphones while driving a car should get punished, as should those who are smoking or doing anything else which takes their attention away from the road.

But how can you punish someone for being an "inexperienced driver"? Everyone who drives was inexperienced at some point, but would you say if they had an accident they ought to be punished more severely than a more experienced driver?

Not drinking and driving is *so* simple and it can so obviously make driving safer. I don't see what is so hard in telling people that if they wish to drive a car then they can't drink alcohol. Is it really such a huge inconvenience to people to have to go without alcohol for an evening? Considering how many people are killed every year by drink drivers, I hardly think expecting drivers to show a little responsibility is too much to ask.

*rant over*
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I agree you can't punish inexperience, but they are some of the highest risks out there on the road.

Now as far as "is it really such a huge inconvenience to people to have to go without alcohol for an evening?" I don't see that as the point. It's not that we can't go without, but it's more of why can't my wife and I enjoy a dinner with a glass of wine responsibly and safely drive home. I can guarentee you that after one glass of wine I'm a much safer driver than most on the road right now.
 
Bonovox....

Thank you for bringing up the cell phones...I was waiting for that. In addition, cars with multiple passengers in them distracts drivers too (I was almost in an accident Sunday like this - four other individuals giving me directions in my blind-spot riddled vehicle).

But, as Ralph Nader said...."unsafe at ANY speed"
 
My feelings about drinking and driving are very strong. I feel that if a person drinks even a drop of alcohol they should not be behind the wheel of a car. If they do, and causes an accident then the tolerance should be ZERO. Does that sound harsh? I apologize. My mother was alcoholic, it cost her her life. My cousin was killed in a car accident caused by drunk driving as well, so yes, I tend to be very intolerant of getting behind the wheel if the person has been drinking.
I drink very seldom and never if I know I will be driving. Much to the chagrin of some I do enjoy myself while out even though I don't drink. You don't have to drink to have a good time. It's sad that there are so many people out there that pressure others to the point where they feel they can't go out and have a great time without having that "couple of drinks".
 
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U2luv said:
My feelings about drinking and driving are very strong. I feel that if a person drinks even a drop of alcohol they should not be behind the wheel of a car. If they do, and causes an accident then the tolerance should be ZERO. Does that sound harsh? I apologize. My mother was alcoholic, it cost her her life. My cousin was killed in a car accident caused by drunk driving as well, so yes, I tend to be very intolerant of getting behind the wheel if the person has been drinking.
I drink very seldom and never if I know I will be driving. Much to the chagrin of some I do enjoy myself while out even though I don't drink. You don't have to drink to have a good time. It's sad that there are so many people out there that pressure others to the point where they feel they can't go out and have a great time without having that "couple of drinks".
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Then as BonoVox has stated anyone that drives and talks on a cell phone, drives and talks to a passenger, eats while driving, smokes while driving, plays with the heat or radio while driving, are all distracted and therefore should not be on the road. That would be about 100% of all people.

I am not talking about people that are drunk while driving i am talking about people that had 2 beers say over an hour. These people are in the same postion as all of the above!

Why do most states and provineces in Canada and USA have BAC readings? Because it is proven that having under that amount, be it .05, .08 or whatever in your parts, is a safe amount and is not effecting your driving. People can argue all they want about not having any thing to drink before getting into a car but if you are responsible and have one or two drinks at dinner or after work then you are able to drive home, according to most laws in the world.
 
I agree about the distractions of mobiles and all other examples. The difference in those id they are shortlived distractions. I'm not condoning them, I agree. There is however a difference. Alcohol and its effects on reaction times are a constant that remain with you for the whole of your journey, unless you are driving a few hours. Flicking on the radio or whatever is a distraction that last maybe a few seconds. I know all it takes is one moment of lack of concentration, which is why I agree. Just pointing that out though.
What you said Bonoman about the BAC's and how they are proven, I dont agree with. There is no way it can ever be proven that any level is safe for all. It is an assumed safe level that tries to accomodate most. But it doesn't. It simply can't. Too many factors contribute to someone's affects from alcohol. Size, what drinks they had, how many, over what time, their susceptibility to alcohol, their history of drinking and so on.
But yeah, this thread isn't so much about drunk driving. We all agree on that I think. The issue does go further than that. Just because the government deems a BAC to be safe at X level, doesn't mean its accurate. If someone feels after 2 beers or 2 glasses of wine with dinner it didn't have any effect on them, and will still be under the limit, I just hope they are right. No one will ever know for sure, so to me, its not a risk worth taking.
 
For me personally, and thats the only person i am responsible for, i know i can have two beers at dinner and be fine. If you know you can be fine then thats alright. But if you have a few beers at dinner and are felling a bit light headed then you shouldnt drive.
 
bonoman said:
For me personally, and thats the only person i am responsible for, i know i can have two beers at dinner and be fine. If you know you can be fine then thats alright. But if you have a few beers at dinner and are felling a bit light headed then you shouldnt drive.
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That right there is the problem Bonoman. You don't have to actually FEEL the drink or drinks that you've had in order for your ability to drive to be affected. And don't MOST people that drink and drive feel that they can handle it? I'm not saying that you personally aren't being responsible as I don't know you. I do know people though that can drink like a fish and not even look or seem to be acting like they've even had one. These same people get behind the wheel of a car and they're all over the road, though that person literally has no idea he's doing so. They "know" that they're fine for driving too.

Oh, and about your comment about the only person that you are responsible for being you? Tell that to the person who causes an accident that costs a life because he had a couple beers on his way home from work. That's the fact behind the driver who caused my cousins death. He had had two beers too and his alcohol limit was under the legal limit. If you get behind the wheel of a car, whether sober or not, you have the responsibility to everyone else on the road to drive safely. That includes being careful with cellphone use and other distractions as well as alcohol.
 
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Sorry to hear about your cousin U2luv. Very sad.
I agree wholeheartedly too, that everyone has a responsibility to their fellow motorists regardless of alcohol.
 
That's exactly how I feel U2luv-I wonder if the day will ever come when most people have that attitude..somehow I doubt it

I am so sorry about your cousin
 
bonoman said:
For me personally, and thats the only person i am responsible for, i know i can have two beers at dinner and be fine. If you know you can be fine then thats alright. But if you have a few beers at dinner and are felling a bit light headed then you shouldnt drive.
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So you can drink two beers, still be under the legal limit for driving and be safe to drive. That's great for you. However another person may drink two beers, remain under the legal limit and yet have their reactions severely impaired by the alcohol. Ideally that person would realise their ability to drive has been affected, but what if they don't? If they're under the legal limit, no matter how drunk they may be, they're *legally* allowed to drive.

When you're driving you're not only responsible for yourself. You're responsible for any passengers in your vehicle and for anyone else driving a car or walking along the roads you're driving on. When you take risks driving it's not only you who's affected, it's every other person on the roads that night. If you want to take risks, that's your look out but IMO nobody should have the right to risk other people's safety even if they're willing to risk their own.

*Fizz.
 
If people want to drive drunk, maybe they can all go on a highway together.

I don't want them on my road, driving alongside me, when I have elected not to drink, not to talk on a cell phone, not to apply makeup or read the newspaper in the car. I don't think it's unreasonable of me to feel this way.
 
anitram said:
If people want to drive drunk, maybe they can all go on a highway together.

I don't want them on my road, driving alongside me, when I have elected not to drink, not to talk on a cell phone, not to apply makeup or read the newspaper in the car. I don't think it's unreasonable of me to feel this way.
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I agree with you anitram. That's what I mean by responsibility to EVERYONE that is on the road with you. It's not unreasonable to feel that way at all.
 
I didnt mean responsibility on the roads. i was refering to responsibility that i am fine to drive. I am responsible for my actions and those actions start with myself. I am not saying that the i wouldnt be responsible for an accident because i thought i was fine but i was saying that if i am a responsible adult then i should relize that two beers are two to many.

And U2luv, i would challane you to find me any info that would back up your claim that two beers in, say 1 hour, would affect your driving. your body metabilizes the alchol and within that hour the amount of alchol in your body would be so low. And if you were to be eating and drinking at the same time, say dinner, your alchol absurbstion rate is much lower.
 
Bonoman,

Different people react to alcohol in different ways. It's not true to say that "your body metabolizes the alcohol" within an hour - that varies according to many factors, for instance a person's weight, their usual drinking habits or how much food they've eaten that day.

And when you make the decision that you're safe to drive, you are taking responsibility for your safety and the safety of other people on the roads that day. I would hope you as a responsible adult know when you've had too much alcohol to safely drive, however I'm not confident that every person in the country has similarly good judgement on that issue and thus I think it would be wise for the government to legislate against people operating a car after consuming alcohol.
 
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