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Old 04-07-2007, 01:08 PM   #121
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
http://www.bathtubginstill.com/
Ah, ok, I thought ther was a word missing or something like that.

There are really all kinds of things
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Old 04-07-2007, 10:24 PM   #122
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


You keep mentioning meth, and you are right in doing so to a certain extent, it's a very dangerous drug.

But what you don't seem to get, is that meth is the moonshine of drugs. There is no regular recipe, there is no exact science, it's people in a basement making this shit.

Honestly meth, probably would never fit in this discussion because of this. Just like "moonshine" would never fit into the discusion of alcohol.
That's part of my "speculation:" even if we legalized certain narcotics, opiates, etc. in version manufactured under a closely regulated process, you would still have these moonshine basement versions, because to some people, that's where the fun is...

What do we do about the illegal, black market manufacture, distribution and use of those potent products?

~U2Alabama
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Old 04-08-2007, 12:00 AM   #123
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The problem that argument has is that under the current regime of illegality the only option people have is the street stuff - with 100% of the profits going to crime.
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Old 04-08-2007, 12:28 AM   #124
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Then I go back to the argument that making more of them legal would make them more acceptable to people who would nod experiment or use them if illegal; that opens up the risk of those people creating additional dangers, risks and burdens to me.

So you would have a new batch of users consuming these new legal versions, and many of the same old experienced users consuming the current toxic versions. And you would have the legal predators and the illegal predators.

~U2Alabama
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Old 04-08-2007, 06:07 AM   #125
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Then I go back to the argument that making more of them legal would make them more acceptable to people who would nod experiment or use them if illegal; that opens up the risk of those people creating additional dangers, risks and burdens to me.
I agree with Bama here. I think you have to be kidding yourself not to think that legalizing currently illegal drugs won't lead many people to believe that the drugs are more "acceptable." Being able to walk into a store and buy something as opposed to find a dealer is a lot easier. Whatever drugs are legalized will, I predict, enter the same realm of relative acceptability currently occupied by alcohol and tobacco. We need to weigh the impact of that shift with any drugs we consider legalizing. Marijuana, I'd say MIGHT be okay, especially since it's practically arrived in the realm of alchohol and tobacco WITHOUT legalization. But LSD, crack cocaine, and what have you? I don't think so. . .

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[Bmany of the same old experienced users consuming the current toxic versions. And you would have the legal predators and the illegal predators.

~U2Alabama [/B]
However, I disagree with this. I think you'd see the "toxic versions" pretty much evaporate. Moonshine is hardly widespread today, certainly not to the extent was during Prohibition or in "dry counties." I think the key may be to look at whether use of the drug is so widespread and so common that it's not worthwhile to keep criminalizing it--that was the case the alcohol. Again, marijuana may fit the bill.

As to the dangers of drugs--I dunno. . .I just saw two movies "Sherrybaby" and "Half Nelson" which made me soooo glad I never used drugs. But then maybe those were propaganda films using scare tactics, put out by The Man. . .
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Old 04-08-2007, 07:30 AM   #126
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LSD is arguably the single greatest drug discovery of the 20th century and the way that the US Government managed to deal with it is an exellent illustration. Powerful to be sure but less dangerous than alcohol.
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Old 04-08-2007, 10:36 AM   #127
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Originally posted by U2Bama


What do we do about the illegal, black market manufacture, distribution and use of those potent products?

~U2Alabama
What do we do now? Is it working?
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Old 04-08-2007, 03:47 PM   #128
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LSD is arguably the single greatest drug discovery of the 20th century and the way that the US Government managed to deal with it is an exellent illustration. Powerful to be sure but less dangerous than alcohol.
Just to clarify I am talking about psychoactive drugs, not in general - since LSD < Penicillin
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Old 04-09-2007, 11:14 PM   #129
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Originally posted by maycocksean

However, I disagree with this. I think you'd see the "toxic versions" pretty much evaporate. Moonshine is hardly widespread today, certainly not to the extent was during Prohibition or in "dry counties." I think the key may be to look at whether use of the drug is so widespread and so common that it's not worthwhile to keep criminalizing it--that was the case the alcohol. Again, marijuana may fit the bill.

People in dry counties an go to the next county over to purchase it and bring it back home for consumption; or more illegally, they can bootleg it - go to the next county and bring it back to their county to sell it.

The toxic versions - the more potent, more dangerous versions ont he street today, would remain in a black market culture because they would be more fun and better at satisfying the addictions of the addicted. That is my speculation.

~U2Alabama
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Old 04-09-2007, 11:15 PM   #130
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


What do we do now? Is it working?
I am not saying that what is done today is a complete success, but I certainly don't think that making it more available will alleviate the problems that remain wiht the black market versions.

~U2Alabama
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Old 04-10-2007, 10:31 AM   #131
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Originally posted by U2Bama


I am not saying that what is done today is a complete success, but I certainly don't think that making it more available will alleviate the problems that remain wiht the black market versions.

~U2Alabama
But you keep speculating that somehow the treatment of blackmarket drugs will change, and I just don't see any basis for this.
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Old 04-11-2007, 12:33 AM   #132
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


But you keep speculating that somehow the treatment of blackmarket drugs will change, and I just don't see any basis for this.
It is not my intent to imply that the black market drug situation would change; it would remain, with all of its risks, dangers, and affiliated criminanl activity. Plus, we would have an increase of users of drugs in general due to the newly legalized versions being more acceptable and available.

~U2Alabama
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Old 04-11-2007, 12:36 AM   #133
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The bottom line to me is that there is a difference between decriminalizing certain drugs (which I support) and the state providing all drugs to the public at a profit (which I don't support for a hundred different reasons).

Edited for clarity.
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Old 04-11-2007, 04:32 AM   #134
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I am not saying that what is done today is a complete success, but I certainly don't think that making it more available will alleviate the problems that remain wiht the black market versions.

~U2Alabama
I think it depends on the drug. Right now the entire illegal drug trade IS black market, out of necessity. That would most certainly change if drugs were legalized, with the black market being relegated to a sort of "boutique drug user" market for serious drug users who want to use product that doesn't follow whatever FDA/gov regulations are put into place.

I do agree wholeheartedly with you though that there would be an uptick in casual, experimental use just because of the increased availability (just head on over to Wal-Mart for your pack of marijuana smokes) and increased social acceptablity that comes with legalization.

Which is why I would be very wary of any widespread legalizing of the drugs that are currently illegal.
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Old 04-11-2007, 10:31 AM   #135
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It is not my intent to imply that the black market drug situation would change; it would remain, with all of its risks, dangers, and affiliated criminanl activity.
Did the black market for alcohol remain the same after the lift of prohibition?
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