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Old 04-06-2007, 11:10 PM   #106
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You laugh but it isn't ironic.

I make a point of smoking on no smoking day, if I have to start taking oxycodone on principle...
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Old 04-06-2007, 11:15 PM   #107
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Not entirely true; some do have medical benefits and some were even medical drugs to begin with, i.e. extasy
Would you not say that today, there are safer, non-addictive alternatives that can be just as effective? I do realize that X has been used in some psychoactive treatments, but even those cases have proven that the harmful effects can be unpredictable from person to person and its psychiatric and medical use are not widely accepted.

Nor is LSD widely accepted for any medical benefit, and its potency makes it even more unpredictable even in psychiatric trials.

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Old 04-06-2007, 11:25 PM   #108
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How is it possible to even know the possibilities if controlled research is banned?

The war on drugs perpetuates myths about how dangerous drug use is, it uses fear to scare the shit out of people from when they are kids and stops them making informed choices about what they put into their bodies - which at one stage or another they will make, illegal or not and ignorance kills.
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Old 04-06-2007, 11:49 PM   #109
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Well, are you talking about "controlled research" or mainstream medical use? Controlled research trials have been conducted; permission can be granted for those. But I have not seen any wide support of medical use as a follow up to any of those controlled research trials.

Is meth not really as dangerous as they say it is? Can LSD not be as potent as they say it is? Does it have the same, nomical effect on everyone?

Are people such as myself missing out by NOT trying them, either for medical or recreational use?

~U2Alabama
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Old 04-07-2007, 12:05 AM   #110
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You are not going to use them anyway, it's not as if the only reason your not racing out to get high is because it's illegal.

It's freedom of choice one way or another, and I would stress that point much more with LSD than I would with methamphetamine.
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Old 04-07-2007, 12:12 AM   #111
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But you ended your statement on the myths of the dangerous drugs by stating that "ignorance kills." How does not experimenting with drugs kill someone? Maybe, hopefully, I am missing your point...

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Old 04-07-2007, 12:31 AM   #112
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You tell kids that if they touch drugs that they will die dishevelled junkies and that they always have to just say no then when they are in an environment where they start to use drugs (statistically they will) they may make really bad choices like mixing alcohol and downers or succuming to water intoxication.

Teens will experiment with drugs, sex and rock and roll (or rap) illegal or not; abstaining is 100% effective but only for the minority that actually manages to abstain. Harm minimisation, independent of legality, is critical.

As for the case study the problems that lead to drug abuse are bigger than just the high; that guy had a piss poor life to start off and was on a downward slope; self-destruction would have been fulfilled whatever way - if not by meth then heroin or alcohol.
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Old 04-07-2007, 12:52 AM   #113
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To be shaken out of the ruts of ordinary perception, to be shown for a few timeless hours the outer and inner world, not as they appear to an animal obsessed with survival or to a human being obsessed with words and notions, but as they are apprehended, directly and unconditionally, by Mind at Large— this is an experience of inestimable value to everyone and especially to the intellectual - Adolus Huxley, The Doors of Perception
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Old 04-07-2007, 02:16 AM   #114
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
You tell kids that if they touch drugs that they will die dishevelled junkies and that they always have to just say no then when they are in an environment where they start to use drugs (statistically they will) they may make really bad choices like mixing alcohol and downers or succuming to water intoxication.
I know many people who were told of the dangers of drugs, and although they mave have taken up the use of alcohol in life, they still managed to turn down other drugs. I know others who merely experimented with other drugs, and I have known some who became habitual users of other drugs and have since experienced the harmful effects of those drugs. I do not see where legalization would eliminate any of this.

Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Teens will experiment with drugs, sex and rock and roll (or rap) illegal or not; abstaining is 100% effective but only for the minority that actually manages to abstain. Harm minimisation, independent of legality, is critical.

As for the case study the problems that lead to drug abuse are bigger than just the high; that guy had a piss poor life to start off and was on a downward slope; self-destruction would have been fulfilled whatever way - if not by meth then heroin or alcohol.
You're right that the problems that lead to drug abuse are bigger than the high - in some cases. I think the meth addict whose article I posted had been tormented by the death of his younger brother his while life; some people need a means of escape. I'm of the opinion that there are safer ways of dealing with people's psychological needs rather than becoming dependent on drugs.

Just as the problems that lead to drug abuse are bigger than the high, the harmful side effects that come from drug use are bigger than those that affect the user - those that affect a child or some stranger driving down the street can be much worse.

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Old 04-07-2007, 03:34 AM   #115
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2Bama


Would you not say that today, there are safer, non-addictive alternatives that can be just as effective? I do realize that X has been used in some psychoactive treatments, but even those cases have proven that the harmful effects can be unpredictable from person to person and its psychiatric and medical use are not widely accepted.

Nor is LSD widely accepted for any medical benefit, and its potency makes it even more unpredictable even in psychiatric trials.

~U2Alabama
Oh believe me, I'm the first to admit that there are many other methods to deal with ailments than pharmaceuticals, but it's part of life.

It's a double edged sword that probably deserves another thread. Yes there are companies profiting off patients misdiagnosis' and marketing towards that and what not. But the truth is, people would rather take a pill rather than deal with it the hard way.

But you also have to acknowledge that there are people who are "hardwired" to be addicts.
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Old 04-07-2007, 03:40 AM   #116
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2Bama


Is meth not really as dangerous as they say it is?
You keep mentioning meth, and you are right in doing so to a certain extent, it's a very dangerous drug.

But what you don't seem to get, is that meth is the moonshine of drugs. There is no regular recipe, there is no exact science, it's people in a basement making this shit.

Honestly meth, probably would never fit in this discussion because of this. Just like "moonshine" would never fit into the discusion of alcohol.
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Old 04-07-2007, 12:24 PM   #117
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^ Actually if we are talking about prohibition the quality controls became non-existant and many died from drinking bathtub still poison.
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Old 04-07-2007, 12:29 PM   #118
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bathtub still poison.

??
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Old 04-07-2007, 12:30 PM   #119
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http://www.bathtubginstill.com/
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Old 04-07-2007, 01:01 PM   #120
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I remember when we got the drug training in school, long before the "just say no" program. The guy who did the training was great. He expected that people were going to experiment and basically he was concerned that we don't fuck it up. Don't do acid alone, at least the first time. Don't mix downers with alchohol. Alcohol with stimulants however didn't pose the same danger. How to talk somebody down. What to watch for. It neither turned me into a raving junkie nor a teetotaler. And because I didn't think he was lying to me, I paid attention to him.
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