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Old 07-17-2005, 05:02 PM   #1
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Dreadsox VS Gitmo

I am 100% against the continuation of GITMO as it is being run today.

Over vacation I did some reading....in particular.....a book called "INSIDE THE WIRE".....

I highly recommend the book....it is written by a US soldier who was stationed at GITMO for six months.

I have written my congressman, my two senators, and my President asking that the prisoners be released or prosecuted as soon as possible.

There may be some bad guys in there...but I am no longer convinced we are doing the right thing there.
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Old 07-17-2005, 05:06 PM   #2
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Old 07-17-2005, 05:08 PM   #3
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Re: Dreadsox VS Gitmo

Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
I am 100% against the continuation of GITMO as it is being run today.
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Old 07-17-2005, 06:07 PM   #4
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Old 07-17-2005, 06:15 PM   #5
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I am sure there will be detractors to this book


Why would this U S citizen make it up?


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Editorial Reviews
Book Description
Inside the Wire is a gripping portrait of one soldier's six months at the terrorist detention center at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba - a powerful, searing journey into a surreal world completely unique in the American experience.

In an explosive newsbreak that generated headlines all around the world, a document submitted by army Sergeant Erik Saar to the Pentagon for clearance was leaked to the Associated Press in January, 2005. His account of appalling sexual interrogation tactics used on detainees at Guantanamo Bay was shocking, but that was only one small part of the story of what he saw at Guantanamo -- and the leak was only one more strange twist in his profoundly disturbing and life-changing trip behind the scenes of America's war on terror.

Saar couldn't have been more eager to get to Gitmo. After two years in the army learning Arabic, becoming a military intelligence linguist, he pounced on the chance to apply his new skills to extracting crucial intel from the terrorists. But when he walked through the heavily guarded, double-locked and double-gated fence line surrounding Camp Delta -- the special facility built for the "worst of the worst" al Qaeda and Taliban suspects - he entered a bizarre world that defied everything he'd expected, belied a great deal of what the Pentagon has claimed, and defiled the most cherished values of American life.

In this powerful account, he takes us inside the cell blocks and interrogation rooms, face-to-face with the captives. Suicide attempts abound. Storm-trooper-like IRF (initial reaction forces) teams ramp up for beatings of the captives, and even injure one American soldier so badly in a mock drill -- a training exercise - that he ends up with brain seizures. Fake interrogations are staged when General Geoffrey Miller - whose later role in the Abu Ghraib fiasco would raise so many questions - hosts visiting VIPs. Barely trained interrogators begin applying their "creativity" when new, less restrictive rules are issued by Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld.

When Saar takes over as a cosupervisor of the linguists translating for interrogations and gains access to the detainees' intelligence files, he must contend with the extent of the deceptions and the harsh reality of just how illconceived and counterproductive an operation in the war on terror, and in the history of American military engagement, the Guantanamo detention center is.

Inside the Wire is one of those rare and unforgettable eyewitness accounts of a momentous and deeply sobering chapter in American history, and a powerful cautionary tale about the risks of defaming the very values we are fighting for as we wage the war on terror.

About the Author
Erik R. Saar served as an army sergeant with the U.S. military in the Detainee Camp at Guant√°namo Bay, Cuba for six months from December 2002 to June 2003, working to support the intelligence and interrogation operations. Sergeant Saar is a recipient of two Good Conduct Medals, an Army Commendation Medal, a Joint Service Commendation Medal, and a Joint Service Achievement Medal. He was trained in Arabic at the Defense Language Institute in Monterey, CA. Before serving at Gitmo, he worked as an intelligence analyst for the National Security Agency at Fort Meade, MD, and for the FBI in New York City. He is a graduate of King's College in Wilkes-Barre, PA.

Viveca Novak is a Washington correspondent for Time, covering legal affairs, terrorism, and civil liberties, among other issues. A recipient of Harvard University's Goldsmith Prize for investigative reporting, the Clarion Award for investigative reporting, and the Investigative Reporters and Editors Award, she is a frequent guest on the national broadcast media, including CNN, NBC, PBS, Fox, and MSNBC. She has a B.A. in foreign affairs from the University of Virginia, an M.S. from Columbia University School of Journalism, and an M.S.L. from Yale Law School.
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Old 07-18-2005, 07:24 AM   #6
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Quote:
He is a graduate of King's College in Wilkes-Barre, PA.


We're forever loyal, ever proud to sing
the glories of the school we cherish...
Hail to Christ the King!


(I'm also a King's grad)
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Old 07-18-2005, 07:30 AM   #7
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Heavens, if this guy is saying shut the place down, let's shut the place down. It's a huge embarrassment.
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Old 07-18-2005, 10:22 AM   #8
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Re: Dreadsox VS Gitmo

Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
I am 100% against the continuation of GITMO as it is being run today.
You leave a lot of room with this statement.

What changes would you institute in the continuation of Gitmo?
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Old 07-18-2005, 10:54 AM   #9
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Re: Re: Dreadsox VS Gitmo

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Originally posted by nbcrusader


You leave a lot of room with this statement.

What changes would you institute in the continuation of Gitmo?
I think that was the beauty of the statement. Dread's post didn't make it a black and white thing. The apologist for this administration will defend what's going on over there until sun disappears. They will acuse those that question the actions of this administration of just wanting to release "the terrorist" back out into the world. Why it's an either/ or thing for them, I will never know.
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Old 07-18-2005, 11:52 AM   #10
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Re: Re: Dreadsox VS Gitmo

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Originally posted by nbcrusader


You leave a lot of room with this statement.

What changes would you institute in the continuation of Gitmo?
I know I did...I had tried to put together a list of things....and the computer froze....then I did not feel like typing it out again.

Let's start with the fact that according to this soldier...

#1 The manner in which people were collected and sent to GITMO was flawed...

#2 Certain blocks of prisoners were not being interrogated, and had not been interrogated for periods of up to or more than 4 months

#3 There were different groups of people doing interrogations, the DOD Interrogators, FBI, CIA....DOD Interrogators were NOT effective, experienced according to the writer of the book.

#4 According to the writer of the book, there had been NOT one piece of information collected that warrented any kind of information to be sent out to operatives world wide...which basically means that that there had been NO intelligence gained that was worthy of an alert.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

That said, there are people that belong there, but, there are MANY who do not. If we are not interrogating them, the system that collected them was flawed, there has been no intelligence gained from them, why are they there?

I say put them on trial, let them go home, and keep the ones that we know are guilty.
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Old 07-19-2005, 12:44 AM   #11
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That's logic/common sense/fairness, isn't it?
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Old 07-19-2005, 03:12 AM   #12
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Re: Re: Re: Dreadsox VS Gitmo

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Originally posted by Dreadsox
I say put them on trial, let them go home, and keep the ones that we know are guilty.
You seem quite knowledgeable on this subject, Dread, so I have a quick question you might be able to answer. As I understand it one of the reasons the US government justifies keeping prisoners in Guantanamo Bay (and it's a reason also used by the UK government for detaining people without trial) is that it would be impossible to try them in public since revealing the evidence against them would jeopardise the work of the security services (eg the CIA, MI6, etc). So firstly, do you think that's a credible argument? And secondly, if so then what should be done with people detained under those terms - should they be detained indefinitely, tried in a private court (which, given how open to abuse it would be, seems little better than detention without trial) or simply released?
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Old 07-19-2005, 12:53 PM   #13
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Dreadsox VS Gitmo

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Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees


You seem quite knowledgeable on this subject, Dread, so I have a quick question you might be able to answer. As I understand it one of the reasons the US government justifies keeping prisoners in Guantanamo Bay (and it's a reason also used by the UK government for detaining people without trial) is that it would be impossible to try them in public since revealing the evidence against them would jeopardise the work of the security services (eg the CIA, MI6, etc). So firstly, do you think that's a credible argument? And secondly, if so then what should be done with people detained under those terms - should they be detained indefinitely, tried in a private court (which, given how open to abuse it would be, seems little better than detention without trial) or simply released?
Based on my understanding from reading this book, there are different sections of Guantamo prisoners....Early on in the author's experience he completed most of his work with prisoners that were NOT questioned by anyone for periods of four months or more.

When he moved into another position on the base he was involved in interpretation of prisoners with intelligence value.

The opinions that I have from the book are that a majority of the people there are being held there have little or no intelligence value at this point. Many were soldiers for the taliban, some were tribal leaders, that were turned in by the Warlords.... The author wrote that some did not even know that 9/11 had happened, but they were told to go fight the invasion.

I would say this to your questions, basing it on my opinions fromt he book. I believe they need a trial. I would say that the majority of people there deserve their day in court. I am not sure a civilian court is the way to go, I would accept a military court, because I still believe there are people in the military that would fight for the fair trial of the people there.

The author did change the names of the people he served with in Guantamo for security reasons. I do not accept that the reason people are not on trial is because we are protecting our intelligence operators.
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