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Old 03-15-2002, 10:06 AM   #31
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I didn't find the article funny at all. Just really sad.

btw, you can leave off insulting Lilly. She's a damn smart young woman, and possesses more critical thinking skills than you exhibit on this forum, despite the age gap.
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Old 03-15-2002, 11:06 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by sulawesigirl4:

btw, you can leave off insulting Lilly. She's a damn smart young woman, and possesses more critical thinking skills than you exhibit on this forum, despite the age gap.
Sula, in defense of lemonite, it was Lilly that started the insults. She agreed with mug222's statement of "dumb f***", and even said she'd write it herself except she's not allowed to write such vulgar things.

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Old 03-15-2002, 11:43 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest:
Quote:
Originally posted by sulawesigirl4:

btw, you can leave off insulting Lilly. She's a damn smart young woman, and possesses more critical thinking skills than you exhibit on this forum, despite the age gap.
Sula, in defense of lemonite, it was Lilly that started the insults. She agreed with mug222's statement of "dumb f***", and even said she'd write it herself except she's not allowed to write such vulgar things.
Uh, yea. So is it that I can dish out the sarcasm and I can't understand it? Or more like I can sidh out OBVIOUS sarcasm and select others can't understand it. Saying that I'd say it myself was SARCASM. It was irony with the intent to insult. Irony because Lemonite likes to pick on my being younger than him (which obviously makes me an idiot). And if you don't understand the insult part, then I'm not going to explain it. The denoted the sarcasm. Next time I will be more blatant with it. Maybe like this: *WARNING! SARCASM AHEAD!* Would that be more helpful?

What's more is Lemonite continues to patronize me due to my age. In example, the line about my having so much promise to fill. I am quite capable of thinking my own thoughts AND I don't start threads congratulating myself on such things.

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Old 03-15-2002, 11:49 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest:

She agreed with mug222's statement of "dumb f***", and even said she'd write it herself except she's not allowed to write such vulgar things.
Well it's a good thing I am, or else he'd never hear it.
80s, you are not obligated to defend your political brethren, you know. Lilly was clearly in the right here, and Lemonite clearly pursued his policy of insults and ignorant commentary. You won't convince anyone otherwise.



[This message has been edited by mug222 (edited 03-15-2002).]
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Old 03-15-2002, 12:06 PM   #35
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Lilly, I see the sarcasm in the "only in high school" part. I see that. But the fact remains that in this thread, YOU started the insults by saying "well said" to mug222's "you're a dumb f***".
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Old 03-15-2002, 12:12 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by mug222:
Well it's a good thing I am, or else he'd never hear it.
80s, you are not obligated to defend your political brethren, you know. Lilly was clearly in the right here, and Lemonite clearly pursued his policy of insults and ignorant commentary. You won't convince anyone otherwise.

Politics?.. That's all you're saying this is.. You did write in your post a mention that you disagree with everything I say. Hmm.. I'm sure that factored into your explosion of vulgarity. I did not insult Lilly in any manner, I said I was sorry to see her follow down that path of 'name calling' a policy I do not endorse (Lilly's acknowledgement as 'Oh Great Statement Mug', but i'm not going to 'quote unquote' write it because I'm too young, is the exact same thing as writing Mug's Words herself). I will make fun of people's statements, or crack jokes, but there's always reason, or a little line in the post that mandates such.. Never Blatant 'You Asshole', or 'You a Fucking Jackass' with no further explanation.

If you disagree with my commentary, then state your opinion, calling things 'ignorant' and such gets you no wheres, because, Honestly, Who knows what the intention of that team was by naming their mascot a 'Fighting White'. Of course, the 'Wannabe' groups that were referenced above will be infuriated by the fact that people are not appalled by such a move by the intramural team. BUT.. maybe just maybe perhaps, the Intramural team was trying to change an opinion by using humor and light heartedness to bypass the serious fighting and Assholeness that can surround such issues in the mainstream spectrum. Maybe I'm the one who 'got' the joke while seeing the deeper issue, and your blind eye to the cleverness is the ignorant action.

So, In that case, my acknowledgement of such an act by the Intramural Team as a clever and funny way of going about it, is exactly what they wanted, I've already posted above that I got their 'serious' message, but in the meantime, I enjoyed their originality in their methods.

80's was not trying to convince anyone of anything he was just pointing out where the insults started. This is not a political battle of one side lining up against the other.. I'm sorry that that is a large pot of gas (Made up of W's Statements, conservative Ideals, and Rush Limbaugh's Sweat Towel) below the fire you've been feeling towards me, but there are no conservative/liberal political battles here. Sorry, go check out the Campaign Finance Reform thread if that is what you wish. Don't bring 80's into your vehemence which is fully directed at me.

Hahhah "You wanna go outside man?.." Hahaha..

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[This message has been edited by Lemonite (edited 03-15-2002).]
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Old 03-15-2002, 12:25 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by mug222:
Well it's a good thing I am, or else he'd never hear it.
80s, you are not obligated to defend your political brethren, you know. Lilly was clearly in the right here, and Lemonite clearly pursued his policy of insults and ignorant commentary. You won't convince anyone otherwise.
[This message has been edited by mug222 (edited 03-15-2002).]
I'm not trying to convince anyone I'm right about lemonite. What I'm doing is defending him. Someone called him to the carpet for insulting Lilly, I simply stated that Lilly started it.

And you, with your "dumb f***" post in the first place...you're no innocent here. Listen, even though I agree with almost everything lemonite posts, I find myself sometimes diagreeing with his side shows (the way he presents the posts). But even so, I've never seen lemonite go so far as to tell someone on the forum (someone he doesn't even know) that he HATES them. In fact, I'll go so far as to say I've never read anyone at Interference tell anyone else that he/she hated him/her. It's absolutely ridiculous. To me, that's worse than any insult I've ever read from anyone. And believe me, I've had insults hurled my way.
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Old 03-15-2002, 12:49 PM   #38
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I feel like I'm running in circles so this will be my last post in this thread.

I'm not sure why you want me to sugarcoat my statement. Obviously I can't judge a person completely over the internet, but if Lemonite in person is anything like Lemonite online, then I would hate him. It's simple, it's true, and that's all there is to it, really. Not only have I disagreed with every single stance he's taken here (with nary an exception), but I'm disgusted with his methods of argument: belittlement, personal insults, and a generally uncaring attitue. (hence my "dumb f***" comment, wherein I attempted to satirize dear lemonite by reducing myself to his level...obviously he "didn't get the joke," as he likes to say.)

A final comment on the racial issue: You say once again that
Quote:
"maybe I'm the one who 'got' the joke while seeing the deeper issue"
but I seriously, seriously doubt that. Whatever humor you see should be quickly dissipated by the disgusting attitude of the town's whites. The Native American student's may have introduced a clever scheme, but you should understand that what humor you may derive from that pales in importance in relation to the underlying issue, and I fear that you honestly don't understand that. Matthew Page attempted to enlighten you about the gravity issue, but once again it eluded you entirely.

A final point: As much as I would like to believe that this issue is beyond the political realm, it simply is not true. Take whatever idealist viewpoint you want, but I guarantee you that there is a divide between Conservative and Liberal thinking on this matter.
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Old 03-15-2002, 01:09 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by mug222:

The Native American student's may have introduced a clever scheme, but you should understand that what humor you may derive from that pales in importance in relation to the underlying issue, and I fear that you honestly don't understand that. Matthew Page attempted to enlighten you about the gravity issue, but once again it eluded you entirely.

A final point: As much as I would like to believe that this issue is beyond the political realm, it simply is not true. Take whatever idealist viewpoint you want, but I guarantee you that there is a divide between Conservative and Liberal thinking on this matter.
Mug, You stepped even below me with your 'name label' insult.

As I have written in this forum before, I do understand the underlying issue, and as I have POSTED before, such team names should be removed due to the 'heartbreak' and 'anger' they incite in certain groups. I was and still am congratulating the Indian/Hispanic/Anglo team for using a different method to get their point across... That is all , and ever was all I was saying.

I posted above that I understood MAP's analogy, in fact I've heard something to that extent before, and as I have POSTED before, I do feel that the anger and pent up horrified feelings these team names may bring out is more than a just cause to have them removed. In fact, let's burn all the Peter Pan DVDs while we're at it due to their 'red man' indian stereotype.

So.. Whatever the Indian's were aiming at, the message was heard by a large majority of people.. You honestly think that they didn't interview any whites who responded in such a manner, "Well I think it is an excellent way to get their point across, using a less conflict laden way to make a point." I'm sure of course they did, but that doesn't make for good gossipy reading.

Again, In regards to your attempt to turn this into a 'Partisan Battle', by accusing 80's of just sticking up for a fellow conservative, That is what I was referencing as a 'Last Gasp' effort to try and shoot down anyone who disagrees with you, by making and blaming it only on politics. I never said this isn't a 'political' issue, It's just not a 'political' issue in this THREAD. There's a difference, That's an attempt to try and turn the focus of the argument, and It had no bearing on the current direction of the argument.

It's nice to hear From you Mug, I've never seen you post anywheres on this forum before, but I would like to hear from you more if you have such strong feelings, It'd be a benefit to this board, and gives more credibility than the 'troll' label. I'm not belittling you or insulting you, just giving you a truth.

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Old 03-15-2002, 04:18 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest:
I simply stated that Lilly started it.



I'd do better, but I need to waste my potential more....*

*this was a statement of extreme sarcasm.

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Old 03-15-2002, 05:59 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lilly:


I'd do better, but I need to waste my potential more....*

*this was a statement of extreme sarcasm.


80's, If it even matters to you, Here's credence, or validity to your claim.

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Old 03-20-2002, 12:15 AM   #42
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Here's the latest article in this Media Frenzied Topic.. Written By Clarence Page.. A Black man who is printed in the Chicago Tribune among others..:

Slinging a racial slur? Oh, where is thy sting


Published March 17, 2002


WASHINGTON -- Sometimes offense is the best defense.

That appears to be what some innovative Native American Indian students at the University of Northern Colorado had in mind. When local activists failed to persuade Eaton High School in Greeley, Colo., to change the name and Indian mascot of its team, the Fightin' Reds, the Indian university students decided to make their point a different way.

They changed the name of their intramural basketball team from the Native Pride to The Fightin' Whities.

Solomon Little Owl, a team member who also directs the university's Native American Student Services, explained to reporters that his teammates, who include Hispanics and Caucasians, wanted to "do something that will let people see the other side of what it's like to be a mascot."

The result? A media frenzy, of course. Network television, major newspapers and radio talk shows have made the Fightin' Whities the best covered intramural squad in the nation. The Greeley Tribune says its Web site, www.greeleytrib.com, crashed Tuesday when demand for the story soared to 29,000 hits for the high-interest local story from the usual 200 hits a day.

Yet Caucasians have proved to be remarkably resistant to offense. Quite the opposite, quite a few agree with the e-mailer who saw the new team name as an "honor" to white Americans, who apparently don't get enough credit for their many contributions to history.

"Help me out here," asked one e-mail to the Greeley Tribune, "why am I supposed to be offended?"

Within days the newspaper, the college and Little Owl's office had received so many requests for team T-shirts that the Fightin' Whities now sell their own line of sportswear at their own Web site with all proceeds going to the Fighting Whites Scholarship Fund Inc.

The items do look pretty snazzy. Each features the team logo, a wholesome-looking '50s-style head-shot illustration of a smiling white guy in a jacket and necktie over the team's memorable slogan, "Every thang's gonna be all white!"

Whether their experiment turns out the way they expect it to or not, the Fightin' Whities deserve to go to the head of the class for giving us all at least one important lesson in cross-cultural differences: It's not what you slur that counts, it is who is slurring it--and how.

After all, American teams have had Euro-ethnic mascots before, like the Fighting Irish, the Ragin' Cajuns or the Norsemen. And how about those Boston Celtics?

No, as an African-American who has heard more than my share of slurs, I can tell you that to be truly offensive, it helps for a slur to carry at least a hint of a threat.

If some Caucasians in Greeley, Colo., find little reason to feel offended, maybe it is because they have little reason to feel threatened by the Fightin' Whities name. Caucasians in, say, Zimbabwe, where President Robert Mugabe has not made white farmers feel very welcome in recent years, might feel a bit more anxious about jokes at their expense.

Similarly, "Reds" may not sound very offensive to most, but to some Indian ears it might sound about as menacing as "Redskins," the name of the NFL football team in the nation's capital. Most Redskins fans undoubtedly mean no harm by their passivity about their team's name. If it reminds some Indians of the days when there were bounties on Indian scalps, that's just tough tomahawks, pal.

Besides, a recent Sports Illustrated poll found that, even on reservations, most Indians did not think school or professional sports teams should change their Indian names, despite the near-unanimity of activists and other busybodies--like me--who think a name like "Redskins" goes way over the top.

But it is not always easy to get non-Indians to walk a few miles in the shoes of Native Americans on this issue. Some tend to become defensive, as if they suddenly are being blamed for all of history's atrocities against the original Americans.

So I give the Fightin' Whities credit for keeping their wit about them. Humor often opens doors that battering rams fail to budge.

If nothing else, the Fightin' Whities stumbled across an unusual way to raise scholarship money. It's like the old saying goes: If you can't beat 'em, make a few bucks off of 'em.

----------

E-mail: cptime@aol.com

_____________________________________-

Now, Allow me to repeat a Quote from this Article, Something that the majority of the nay-sayers have failed to miss.. What I tried to point out...

"So I give the Fightin' Whities credit for keeping their wit about them. Humor often opens doors that battering rams fail to budge."

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Old 03-21-2002, 02:30 PM   #43
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EIB:

The guy who came up with the Fightin' Whitie slogan out there in Greeley, Colorado, Simon Little Owl, really thought he was going to make people mad. He thought he was going to teach everyone a lesson about what it's like to be humiliated and offended each and every damn day. Yet the whole thing has done a total 180 on him.
The Fightin' Whitie slogan has taken off like wildfire. People from all over the place are demanding t-shirts and Simon Little Owl doesn't understand why. He doesn't understand why so many people are proud to be a member, and want to be members, of the Fightin' Whities.

My friends, what was his miscalculation? What did Simon Little Owl not factor correctly? You're close if you think it's people being sick of everything PC, but it's even more specific than that, and let me be fair with the question. You have to consider something that doesn't directly get mentioned in this story very much, and that is Redskins, Braves, or whatever other Indian names, nicknames, and mascots that are used. These names factor in the answer.
Simon Little Owl is out there thinking that all he had to do was come up with this name, the Fightin' Whities, and everyone would react the way he does to the Indian nicknames. The miscalculation is that the people who name their football teams the Redskins, or their baseball teams the Braves, don't do it with malice. They do it out of a sense of honor and pride. Do you think the Washington Redskins team and fans are actually trying to humiliate people by calling them the Redskins? They do it because they think it fits the tenor and tone of the team. And it's the same thing with the Braves.
This is what all of these people miscalculate. Those are names that connote a positive image. People like Simon Little Owl think that all they've got to do is come up with a name that would offend others as they are offended and they miss the whole point, because everybody looks at these nicknames positively. The only people who aren't looking at them positively are these people who have their noses out of joint and there's only a few of them.

So, supposedly, this guy has gone back to the drawing board because he wants to come up with something else that will get his point across. What he doesn't understand is that the point has come across, and it's not the point that he wanted to make.




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Old 04-03-2002, 11:05 PM   #44
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Frankly, I am scared of of Steve Spurrier
You shouldn't be; he is beatable.

For the record, dream wanderer is the only one with whom I agree 100% on this topic.

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Old 04-05-2002, 11:32 AM   #45
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After all's said and done, it ironically appears that everyone here basically has the same view. That it is wrong to use such team names when there are folks getting offended. It doesn't matter who starts it, who finishes it, whether it is retaliatory, intentional, sarcastic, whatever. Its never right to make people feel like that and its not ridiculous to want it changed. If the Celtic folks decide they want Boston to change their name, so be it. It is always a good time to start breaking stereotypes.
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