Dove Campaign For Real Beauty

[lmjhitman]

Sometimes we focused too much on criticizing skinny girls as trying to 'show off' while we let obese ones go by. Obesity is not healthy and I am hoping that this campaign does not get twisted into justifying this.

"awww, gee. i hope women don't look at this ad and think it's ok to be fat." that would really put a damper on the hot chicks thread, wouldn't it?

this campaign has nothing to do with obesity, it's about healthy body image. the women shown are healthy, average-sized women. we've become so used to grossly underweight women being the norm in the media, that normal-looking women are considered 'fat'. THAT is twisted, indeed.

 

[Lemonfix]

"awww, gee. i hope women don't look at this ad and think it's ok to be fat." that would really put a damper on the hot chicks thread, wouldn't it?

this campaign has nothing to do with obesity, it's about healthy body image. the women shown are healthy, average-sized women. we've become so used to grossly underweight women being the norm in the media, that normal-looking women are considered 'fat'. THAT is twisted, indeed.

No one was saying this ad showed obese/unhealthy women. If you go back and read the thread you will see that the conversation got kind of off topic and on to the realities of weight and weight issues in America.

 

[Liesje]

I agree that one of the biggest misconceptions about ED's is that they are caused by simply wanting to be thin and not because of control issues.

My question is about women who are bone thin and look in the mirror and see a fat person. Women you see on TV who look like walking skeletons and yet still think they are fat. This must be some kind of mental disorder as well...would that qualify as anorexia or is it a different kind of mental problem or a bit of both?

Honestly, I'm not sure b/c in my experience, I've only ever dealt with either very "driven" (pretty, athletic, SMART, popular) girls and gymnasts. I would say from my point of view that these emaciated celebs who still make comments on being "fat" or think they are fat might also be using an ED for control. Usually they have some other issues in their lives, probably have feelings of emptiness even though they are rich and famous and have everything anyone could want, and since they have no reality of having to make it on a day-to-day basis and really don't do a whole lot most of the time, they have all day to themselves to obsess over weight and exercise. Anorexia as I previously described it IS a mental disorder, but I think what you're describing is a bit different, still the symptoms (key word there being symptoms, not the root problem itself) are the same.

I feel like I should say the reason I go on and on about this is because I think so just label any skinny girl who has bad eating habits in order to be skinny as having a real ED can undermine the horrific extent of a full blown eating disorder. It is a disease and something that simply cannot be turned on or off like disordered eating can. Girls with EDs need some sort of intervention to tackle the disease.

 

[beli]

i saw those pics here in canada somewhere, beli. i remember seeing the woman with the freckles and i thought of you.

Thank you for thinking of me

Those pics are still used in the US beli...several magazines have a tri-fold ad with the complete series of pics, which includes the freckled woman, the older woman, etc. They are only excluded in the one page ads.

Excellent! Good to hear

 

[echo0001]

Yay for glow-in-the-dark white girls! Since I'm one myself, having inherited the pale Irish complexion.

I think it's high fucking time we got over this "only supermodels" are beautiful bullshit. When I was younger, I didn't think much of my looks. Then I took a closer look at my six sisters; none of them are ugly. In fact, they are a nice looking bunch of women. Everybody was always telling me (I was the baby) that I looked like one sister or the other. So, I finally concluded that I'm probably at least as pretty as my sisters, and if I am, then I'm not bad looking.

I've long since given up trying to match society's current standards. I only wear make-up on very special occasions. I don't own a pair of high heels. I don't own an underwire bra or a miniskirt. My major concession to 'image improvement' is dying my hair, which is naturally sort of a washed-out mouse blond non-color--totally blah. (I color it because I don't like the natural blah non-color.) And I still get compliments (occasionally) from men. So, it's obvious to me that the marketing industry (which spends millions to make us all feel ugly so we'll buy their products) is full of shit.

Good for Dove, even if it is a marketing maneuver.

And parents--it probably wouldn't hurt to explain to your kids, at a young age, that the ' beautiful' people in the ads and tv commercials are chosen to match a ridiculous standard designed to make women feel unattractive enough to spend a large amount of money on 'beauty' products. Since you're trying anyway to teach them that beauty can't be defined by a single standard.

 

[adam's_mistress]

My question is about women who are bone thin and look in the mirror and see a fat person. Women you see on TV who look like walking skeletons and yet still think they are fat. This must be some kind of mental disorder as well...would that qualify as anorexia or is it a different kind of mental problem or a bit of both?

I don't know a whole lot about some of the many facets of eating disorders as highlighted by LivLuv and WildHoneyAlways etc., and I'm not a psych expert, but this below sounds like it's up there in line with your question.

"Body dysmorphic disorder is a type of anxiety disorder. The disorder is different from eating disorders because it involves other factors besides one's weight or body size. Physical features or attributes are what provokes the person's anxiety and negative beliefs. Those with BDD have several 'cognitive distortions' about how they look. Cognitive distortions are distorted beliefs about a perceived flaw," explains Steven Pittman, PhD, a licensed clinical psychologist.

^ taken from here: http://kidshealth.org/parent/emotions/feelings/body_dysmorphic_p2.html

Like the quote says, it's not an eating disorder, but perhaps the chemical imbalance that triggers this dysmorphic disorder could be a direct result/lead to eating disorders...? I really don't know, I'm just guessing here. And probably throwing another log on the fire (sorry)

 

[adam's_mistress]

Oh, and another thing. When I was in London this past January I noticed the Campaign for Real Beauty *everywhere*! I remembered the woman with the freckles most of all, probably because she sort of has my mother's skin. Anyway, there were posters all over the place, and there were 2 check boxes (one for yes, one for no) underneath. These campaign posters were in the tube stations, on the tubes, billboards on buses and bus stops, and there were even some of these posters in coffee shops and some retailers.

 

[Lemonfix]

Honestly, I'm not sure b/c in my experience, I've only ever dealt with either very "driven" (pretty, athletic, SMART, popular) girls and gymnasts. I would say from my point of view that these emaciated celebs who still make comments on being "fat" or think they are fat might also be using an ED for control. Usually they have some other issues in their lives, probably have feelings of emptiness even though they are rich and famous and have everything anyone could want, and since they have no reality of having to make it on a day-to-day basis and really don't do a whole lot most of the time, they have all day to themselves to obsess over weight and exercise.

Thanks for the info, LivLuv. Actually, I didn't make myself clear in my post, when I was talking about "Women on TV" I actually wasn't talking about celebs but women who I've seen on Oprah or some other talk show who and who are very very sick. Going back to read my post I see I wasn;t clear at all. Sorry. But at the same time the comments you made may still hold for the women I was talking about.

 

[u2bonogirl]

on the note of women being thin and looking in the mirror and seeing something else, I think I can add something personal to that
I wouldnt necessarily call myself a thin person. So Im not saying that Im skinnny seeing fat, but my mind can do the strangest things to me sometimes.
One minute I can be fine, not disgusted with my body or myself (what Im really disgusted with is lack of control over how i look) and then I can eat a meal and all of a sudden I look literally 15 pounds heavier to myself. I grab the fat on my tummy and it feels like ive just grabbed twice as much as what was there before.
I look at myself and everything looks bigger.
When it happens i know its probably my brain telling me that Im disgusting and that I should have had more control over what I ate but Im not reasonable right then. So I spiral down into this little mini depression.
Its a totally real thing that a person can have a distorted view of their body

 

[U2@NYC]

"awww, gee. i hope women don't look at this ad and think it's ok to be fat." that would really put a damper on the hot chicks thread, wouldn't it?

this campaign has nothing to do with obesity, it's about healthy body image. the women shown are healthy, average-sized women. we've become so used to grossly underweight women being the norm in the media, that normal-looking women are considered 'fat'. THAT is twisted, indeed.

Lemonfix already responded to your inappropriate criticism of my post... kindly read that response and save your words. What the hell this has to do with the hot chicks thread?

Clearly, you did not read what I had to say and twisted my words around to say whatever you wanted to say. You are entitled to your opinion, but, next time, don't quote my post as responding to it.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

this campaign has nothing to do with obesity, it's about healthy body image. the women shown are healthy, average-sized women. we've become so used to grossly underweight women being the norm in the media, that normal-looking women are considered 'fat'. THAT is twisted, indeed.

I agree, the average American women is a size 12 or 14 -sorry, that is not obese. And if someone thinks that's obese, I think they have a problem w/ their expectations of women.

There's nothing wrong w/ admiring beautiful women, as long as it doesn't get to the point when one compares all women to an unrealistic standard and starts to think women like the women in the Dove ads are overweight. I don't think some women in Hollywood are skinny naturally and trying to "show off. I think perhaps some of them might be starving themselves.

 

[u2bonogirl]

the women in hollywood are also under loads of pressure to look a certain way. If they dont look it, they dont get the part.
That would be enough to keep me from touching the godiva

 

[LarryMullen's POPAngel]

I agree, the average American women is a size 12 or 14 -sorry, that is not obese. And if someone thinks that's obese, I think they have a problem w/ their expectations of women.

There's nothing wrong w/ admiring beautiful women, as long as it doesn't get to the point when one compares all women to an unrealistic standard and starts to think women like the women in the Dove ads are overweight. I don't think some women in Hollywood are skinny naturally and trying to "show off. I think perhaps some of them might be starving themselves.

Isn't obese something like when the person's BMI is at, or more than, 30%? Also, Marilyn Monroe was a size 14, let's just remember that, boys.

It really makes me feel like crap that some days when I walk out of the door I feel like I look pretty good, only to have that idea sideswiped when I see some anorexic-looking teenybopper (yes, I realize she may be naturally thin, but most of the time a lot of these girls look like they could use a cheeseburger) on the street next to me.

I could tell you that it's pretty much common knowledge that most Hollywood actresses are starving themselves, just by comparing pictures of them from five or so years ago to present day - Nicole Kidman used to have a bit more meat on her bones, as did Jennifer Aniston, Courtney Cox, Lindsay Lohan, etc. Watch an early episode of "Friends" and look at Rachel's arms. They go from healthy looking (not fat in the slightest) to being birdlike. It sickens me.

 

[DrTeeth]

Watch an early episode of "Friends" and look at Rachel's arms. They go from healthy looking (not fat in the slightest) to being birdlike. It sickens me.

I suspect Chandler from stealing her lunch every day.

 

[LarryMullen's POPAngel]

I suspect Chandler from stealing her lunch every day.

You're such a brat, lol.

 

[BAW]

Isn't obese something like when the person's BMI is at, or more than, 30%? Also, Marilyn Monroe was a size 14, let's just remember that, boys.

It really makes me feel like crap that some days when I walk out of the door I feel like I look pretty good, only to have that idea sideswiped when I see some anorexic-looking teenybopper (yes, I realize she may be naturally thin, but most of the time a lot of these girls look like they could use a cheeseburger) on the street next to me.

I could tell you that it's pretty much common knowledge that most Hollywood actresses are starving themselves, just by comparing pictures of them from five or so years ago to present day - Nicole Kidman used to have a bit more meat on her bones, as did Jennifer Aniston, Courtney Cox, Lindsay Lohan, etc. Watch an early episode of "Friends" and look at Rachel's arms. They go from healthy looking (not fat in the slightest) to being birdlike. It sickens me.

It sickens me too. Not only do these women starve themselves but they are mutilating their faces with Botox and collagen stuffed lips to the point where some female celebrities are beginning to look like expressionless wax figures. Its hideous and very, very sad.

I saw a teenage girl recently, 16 years old possibly, and she was bone thin, bleach blond hair, obvious breast implants, tanning bed skin, long artificial nails, mini-skirt up to her ass..the whole Paris Hilton look. She was pretty, no doubt, but I had to wonder if she focused on anything else in life but herself. At 16, everything about her outward appearance was altered or artificial. What is she going to think of herself in 10 or 20 years? Will she ever be happy with her appearance or will she continue to try and keep up with Hollywood standard of beauty?

A bit off topic I know, but it makes me sad when it starts so young.

 

[Liesje]

Also, Marilyn Monroe was a size 14, let's just remember that, boys.

But even this is discouraging b/c a size 14 then is only a size 6 now During her career, Marilyn weighed 118-140 lbs.


Which brings up another thing I HATE about today's fashion: SIZES!!! Ah, they're NEVER consistent between stores and even within stores!

 

[LarryMullen's POPAngel]

But even this is discouraging b/c a size 14 then is only a size 6 now During her career, Marilyn weighed 118-140 lbs.


Which brings up another thing I HATE about today's fashion: SIZES!!! Ah, they're NEVER consistent between stores and even within stores!

I was actually thinking that when I was posting it... I don't know of one woman who has just one size in her closet, since the stores are so nuts when it comes to sizing.

 

[u2bonogirl]

I know all about the sizing crap
Its so humiliating to think I wear one size and then have to go one or even 2 up to get my butt squeezed into a pair of pants

 

[Liesje]

I was actually thinking that when I was posting it... I don't know of one woman who has just one size in her closet, since the stores are so nuts when it comes to sizing.

I REALLY hate the stores that try to make you feel better by making things huge. I'm usually a size 8-10, but I go to some of the teeny-bopper stores like American Eagle and Aeropostale and have to try on 6s and even 4s and it's such a pain in the ass having to keep going back for a smaller size.

 

[u2bonogirl]

I had the exact opposite experience at A&F
Im normally a 6-8...and well. It didnt go that way

 

[Lemonfix]

But even this is discouraging b/c a size 14 then is only a size 6 now During her career, Marilyn weighed 118-140 lbs.

I've read several places that Marilyn today would be around a size 10, which to me sounds about right.

Responding to a different argument, I think we should be a bit less inclined to assume that a every skinny teenage girl has some kind of problem. In many cases the body of a teenager is still changing from girl to woman; sometimes the body grows taller before it matures in other areas; sometimes the breasts even grow before other areas do. Puberty is weird and often makes girls look pretty gangly for awhile. (I know from experience, let me tell you).

And unfortunatley, things like starving oneself or going to extremes for beauty is nothing new. While women like Marilyn were "in" in the post-war period, during the 20's and 30's a boyish shape was in vogue. It's just been recently that people have really begun to see the damage crash diets and starvation diets can do.

This doesn't take away the fact, however, that the average person in America (men and women) is getting larger and more unhealthy. Compare the average American with the average European you'll see a difference in size and in health, and it's something we need to address as a society, along with eating disorders.

 

[For Honor]

.........

Marilyn Monroe = disgusting


as far as I'm concerned......


edit- let me explain - I didn't like her persona or person. I don't know her, so I can't pass much judgement. But from what little I do know, I never really found her attractive. Maybe she had a decent body, but I never even paid attention.

Just... not my type of girl, it doesn't seem

 

[For Honor]

But even this is discouraging b/c a size 14 then is only a size 6 now During her career, Marilyn weighed 118-140 lbs.


Which brings up another thing I HATE about today's fashion: SIZES!!! Ah, they're NEVER consistent between stores and even within stores!

And even me, as a guy, I will second that.

People always ask what size shirt, or shoe size. And I can't really give them an answer, becasue it is always so different ate every location and for every brand. Even in the same brand of shoe, I have worn different numbered sizes depending on the style.....

We need a 'metric system for clothes' here in the US...........

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

Responding to a different argument, I think we should be a bit less inclined to assume that a every skinny teenage girl has some kind of problem. In many cases the body of a teenager is still changing from girl to woman; sometimes the body grows taller before it matures in other areas; sometimes the breasts even grow before other areas do. Puberty is weird and often makes girls look pretty gangly for awhile. (I know from experience, let me tell you).

. Thank you. People have made comments about my weight before, thinking I don't eat or something. I do (I actually eat quite a lot of junk food), but yet my body just looks the way it does anyway-I'm just scrawny. I'd like to gain a bit more weight, though, so comments like that could stop.

But yeah, that's definitely something else to consider, too.

Angela