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Old 04-01-2008, 05:53 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511




erm, his entire military career was about equality.
No disagreement there.

My point is the article reads that he was killed by an IED.
He did a noble act, it had nothing to do with sexuality or sexual preference.
He wasn't thinking about the Rainbow Coalition when this happened; you guys are.

If you guys start meriting soilders heroic acts by sexual orgin or preference-this could start down a slippery slope.

dbs
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Old 04-01-2008, 05:55 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond


He wasn't thinking about the Rainbow Coalition when this happened; you guys are.

If you guys start meriting soilders heroic acts by sexual orgin or preference-this could start down a slippery slope.

dbs
And the first women and black heroes in the army, that shouldn't be made an issue either... That would have been a slippery slope.
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Old 04-01-2008, 06:05 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond


No disagreement there.

My point is the article reads that he was killed by an IED.
He did a noble act, it had nothing to do with sexuality or sexual preference.
He wasn't thinking about the Rainbow Coalition when this happened; you guys are.

If you guys start meriting soilders heroic acts by sexual orgin or preference-this could start down a slippery slope.

dbs


you've got it backwards.

it's not that sexual orientation merits heroic acts, but that heroic acts are performed by soldiers of all sexual orientations. thusly, sexual orientation should in no way be a barrier to service in the armed forces.
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Old 04-01-2008, 06:25 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


And the first women and black heroes in the army, that shouldn't be made an issue either... That would have been a slippery slope.
Who is saying that?

And Martin Luther King Jr.'s neice would say that her uncle would probably disagree with you on gay rights:

What King Allegedly Said in Private
===================================

The controversy arouses every several years. In 1997, King's niece
"denied that homosexuality is a "civil rights" issue. It is an issue
left to the individual and God, she said. Homosexual "marriage" can
never succeed, because God will not recognize it. When the leader of
the African-American gay community told King that homosexuality was
"bondage," she urged him to remain open to the possibility of finding
a way out of it. (SOURCE: Mass. News
<http://www.massnews.com/past_issues/...ure/cult24.htm>).



Furturmore most African American Ministers disagree with the gay movement (and you) trying to align themselves with the struggles of Black Americans in the past:

http://www.boston.com/news/local/art...riage_backers/


She's also against abortion calling it racist, genocidal and is conservative in her views -a lot like MLK.



http://www.onenewsnow.com/Culture/Default.aspx?id=68669

I think if MLK were alive today he wouldn't support the gay movement, nor abortion on demand and backhand Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton and call them out for being poverty pimps that they are, dividing America and rebuke them for attempting to pervert his cause and mission.

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Old 04-01-2008, 06:55 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond


Who is saying that?

You are...

And I could care less what MLK's neice says...

And I could also care less about your SPECULATIONS of what MLK would feel or believe. You have nothing to base your speculations on, therefore you're just reaching and projecting your own beliefs.
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Old 04-01-2008, 07:01 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


You are...

And I could care less what MLK's neice says...

And I could also care less about your SPECULATIONS of what MLK would feel or believe. You have nothing to base your speculations on, therefore you're just reaching and projecting your own beliefs.
Actually, there's a fair degree of evidence backing up Diamond's point that many African American Ministers disagree with the gay rights movement trying to align themselves with the struggles of Black Americans in the past.
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Old 04-01-2008, 07:29 PM   #22
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I understood BVS' point to be that it can be inspiring and psychologically beneficial for gay people to see examples of highly regarded, admired 'out' gay people from all walks of life, just as it's inspiring for women and black people to have such models. That despite very real continued prejudices in certain arenas, all kinds of possibilities are still open to you. To identify those sorts of common themes in three different historically disadvantaged groups' experiences is obviously not to say that their struggles are exactly the same in all regards, or that people from one group don't enjoy advantages relative to the others in certain situations. The main difference with this particular situation (gay military people who gave their lives in service) is that gay is an identity which can be concealed, whereas blackness and femaleness can't be concealed. But there's no reason why it should be concealed, and Major Rogers' own history of campaigning against DADT as a gay man certainly suggests he didn't think it should be.
Quote:
the leader of the African-American gay community
Did they all get together and have an election or something?

Yes, black ministers and black people, like white ministers and white people, can be homophobic, sexist, anti-Semitic etc.--just as gay men can be sexist, women racist etc.--which shouldn't surprise anyone; those prejudices are all historically present in mainstream American culture after all, and no one lives under a rock.
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Old 04-01-2008, 07:29 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by financeguy


Actually, there's a fair degree of evidence backing up Diamond's point that many African American Ministers disagree with the gay rights movement trying to align themselves with the struggles of Black Americans in the past.
I understand that, but honestly that has nothing to do with the issue at hand.

There were many black men that didn't agree with women's rights, and many women that didn't believe in race equality, does that somehow weaken the argument? No.
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Old 04-01-2008, 07:44 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond

I say he's moved on to greater things and if he did look down on us he would wonder why you're so angry and tell you not to be-that life is too short

Cut the crap diamond. Because "you don't" I am "angry". Some things are well worth getting "angry" about. Stick to the topic and please leave your assessments of my emotional state out of it-and you have done that numerous times.
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Old 04-01-2008, 07:49 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond

I think if MLK were alive today he wouldn't support the gay movement,


I'm glad you can channel Dr. King. You should have a reality show about it.

You do know that Mrs. King fully supported gay marriage, right?
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Old 04-01-2008, 08:49 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by martha




I'm glad you can channel Dr. King. You should have a reality show about it.

You do know that Mrs. King fully supported gay marriage, right?
Clearly she did not know the guy!!!!!


On a side note, my point for the thread is that it should not matter what your sexual orientation is, you should be who you are and be able to serve in the military. Period.

I wonder if the soldiers he saved worried that it was a gay soldier that saved him. And all this talk that he was not open about his gayness - is shite - because he had to HIDE who he was to serve.
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Old 04-01-2008, 08:58 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox


Clearly she did not know the guy!!!!!


On a side note, my point for the thread is that it should not matter what your sexual orientation is, you should be who you are and be able to serve in the military. Period.

I wonder if the soldiers he saved worried that it was a gay soldier that saved him. And all this talk that he was not open about his gayness - is shite - because he had to HIDE who he was to serve.
Matt-

Another thing about this story is, as far as I can tell this soldier--and please correct me if I'm wrong , -he unknowling step on an IED.

If this is the real case, then this would be different if a gay soldier were to push to straight soldiers out of the way from a live gernade, so for clarification's sake-please give us the actual account. What actually happened?

From researching this story all I see thus far is that he unknowling lost his life, which is still a great sacrafice to his country, so please clarify about what actually happened.

thx,

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Old 04-01-2008, 09:01 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


You are...

And I could care less what MLK's neice says...

And I could also care less about your SPECULATIONS of what MLK would feel or believe. You have nothing to base your speculations on, therefore you're just reaching and projecting your own beliefs.
Show us where Dr King supported homosexual relations and abortion on demand.

dbs
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Old 04-01-2008, 09:42 PM   #29
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Old 04-01-2008, 09:43 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by martha




I'm glad you can channel Dr. King. You should have a reality show about it.

You do know that Mrs. King fully supported gay marriage, right?
Never claimed that, although one can pore over his sermons and get a clear idea of what he believed.

Last time I checked Corretta King wasn't an ordained minister and didn't support gay marriage when the Rev was alive.
Let me know if I'm mistaken on that one.

Quote:
Actually, there's a fair degree of evidence backing up Diamond's point that many African American Ministers disagree with the gay rights movement trying to align themselves with the struggles of Black Americans in the past.

Now his neice Dr. Alveda King is a ordained minister and is alive.

http://www.kingforamerica.com/

I will take her word on her interpretation of Dr King's teachings over the wistful thinkers of FYM.

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