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Old 03-01-2007, 10:44 PM   #106
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Originally posted by AEON
The fact is, they believe it IS a problem. It is one thing for a congressman to pass a bill in order to appear PC. It is quite another to actually serve in a combat arms unit. I suppose it is just something most will never understand.


they obviously aren't the majority opinion in either army, and they're obviously still with the army despite being so terrorized by the openly gay men they're forced to shower with.
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Old 03-01-2007, 10:44 PM   #107
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It's interesting tha the most militarised nation state of ancient Greece did more than just allow homosexuality.
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Old 03-01-2007, 10:45 PM   #108
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Originally posted by AEON

The point is - some people are simply not meant to serve in certain areas in life. Men shouldn't play women's volleyball, a man in a wheelchair can't compete in the NBA, and openly homosexual men do not fit into the modern Infantry. It really is that simple.
I don't think it's that simple, I think it's your bigoted opinion talking.

So what's the reason that women don't fit in a modern Infantry? The fact they are so oversexed that they will attack you in a tent? Or the fact you're so oversexed that you'd attack them? Or is it that you are harboring sexist opinions that belong in something other than a modern Infantry?
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Old 03-01-2007, 10:45 PM   #109
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this was forwarded to me, i'll post:

[q]The best asset of the army is its spirit - of comradeship, brotherhood, and unity. It is a spirit which overrules, or at least ought to overrule, all the taxonomies of civilian life: race, politics, class, region, and even, one might hope, sexuality. But if you actually believe our men and women in uniform can stand up to the most maniacal, barbaric, ruthless, and vile killers in the world, and still be flustered by - gasp - a gay person, then you have officially exiled yourself from the frontier of reason.[/q]
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Old 03-01-2007, 10:46 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally posted by AEON
The fact is, they believe it IS a problem. It is one thing for a congressman to pass a bill in order to appear PC. It is quite another to actually serve in a combat arms unit. I suppose it is just something most will never understand.

I won't say there aren't some people in the Infantry that disagree with me. And if a law gets passed that allows openly gay soldiers serve in the Infantry - I'll obey and do my job even if I don't think it is best.
There's a lot things you will never understand, that's life. But it's one thing to let your own hatred and the hatred of some others dictate life for everyone else.


Quote:
Originally posted by AEON

And I wonder if the women would mind if I brought 6 of my tallest and most athletic friends. We could dominate like no other!

The point is - some people are simply not meant to serve in certain areas in life. Men shouldn't play women's volleyball, a man in a wheelchair can't compete in the NBA, and openly homosexual men do not fit into the modern Infantry. It really is that simple.
Don't hide behind "sexual frustration" when it's really pure sexism that makes you think women can't serve.

You've just now made yourself a liar.
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Old 03-01-2007, 11:04 PM   #111
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
this was forwarded to me, i'll post:

[q]The best asset of the army is its spirit - of comradeship, brotherhood, and unity. It is a spirit which overrules, or at least ought to overrule, all the taxonomies of civilian life: race, politics, class, region, and even, one might hope, sexuality. But if you actually believe our men and women in uniform can stand up to the most maniacal, barbaric, ruthless, and vile killers in the world, and still be flustered by - gasp - a gay person, then you have officially exiled yourself from the frontier of reason.[/q]
excellently put. i don't know if excellently is a word, but it just became one for the purposes of this post.
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Old 03-01-2007, 11:06 PM   #112
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i guess i'd agree with the following -- if the majority of infantry men are like AEON and couldn't function in the presence of a gay, then most gay men aren't going to drift to the infantry. those that do are probably more masculine than the straight infantry guys. but does the absolute assurance that AEON will never have to shower with the gay so positively impace his performance that it justifies the thousands upon thousands of non-infantry jobs, like, you know, linguists?
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Old 03-02-2007, 12:15 AM   #113
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
It's interesting tha the most militarised nation state of ancient Greece did more than just allow homosexuality.
Yes - the old classic Greece defense.

I have 2 issues with this.

1) I would like to see more direct evidence regarding this and not scholarly speculation. What ancient Greece resources say this directly (not merely implied, like it is in the Illiad between Achillies and Patroklos) - and by whom was it written? An artist perhaps? Was he perhaps biased in his writing? Why do we accept without questions a few remarks from a few texts and then question the validity of the New Testament books?

2) different times, different Army. We also don't go around raping women when we go into a village either (yes, there are isolated incidents, but the ancient armies encouraged this)
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Old 03-02-2007, 12:27 AM   #114
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Originally posted by AEON


I think the sexual tension is an unnecessary element.

I am not saying that there are not women who can do the job. I'm certain there a few. However, it wouldn't be optimal. And in the Infantry, more than in any other element, you want as few distractions possible.
Oh good lord. We aren't going to be allowed an equal access and opportunity because you can't keep your mind out of MY pants? Sounds you'll fit right in over in Islamofascist-land. They like to keep women under wraps because the fellas get too distracted by our purtyness, too.
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Old 03-02-2007, 12:29 AM   #115
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Quote:
Originally posted by AEON
openly homosexual men do not fit into the modern Infantry. It really is that simple.
It's a man's life in the Royal Army!

/random Monty Python quote
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Old 03-02-2007, 12:43 AM   #116
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Originally posted by martha


Oh good lord. We aren't going to be allowed an equal access and opportunity because you can't keep your mind out of MY pants?
I'm confused because then he seemed to suggest that it's us who can't keep our minds out of HIS pants.
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Old 03-02-2007, 01:15 AM   #117
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Originally posted by anitram


I'm confused because then he seemed to suggest that it's us who can't keep our minds out of HIS pants.
Just for the record - when I said that I was mostly joking. Mostly.
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Old 03-02-2007, 02:13 AM   #118
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


There's a lot things you will never understand, that's life. But it's one thing to let your own hatred and the hatred of some others dictate life for everyone else.




Don't hide behind "sexual frustration" when it's really pure sexism that makes you think women can't serve.

You've just now made yourself a liar.
I wouldn't allow my toddler son to play tackle football with my brother's football team- it doesn't mean I hate him or that I am a toddler-phobe. It simply means it isn't the best situation for either my son or my brother's football team.

I wonder - are people here really concerned about what is best for the Army regarding this issue, or are they more concerned with their own sense of political correctness?
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Old 03-02-2007, 02:17 AM   #119
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Originally posted by Liesje





Don't ask, don't tell was a major reason, if not THE reason, I decided against enlisted at the age/place in my life where up until that point I'd always considered it a real possibility.
It sounds like the military probably wasn't the best fit for you. Just like Greenpeace is not the best fit for me.
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Old 03-02-2007, 02:26 AM   #120
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I think if I was a frightened straight guy and really worried about some gay guy looking at me or plotting to assault me I would want to know if any of the guys I was with were gay or not. Otherwise, knowing that statistically, at least some of the other guys there with me are indeed gay, I would wonder about all of them.

I just don't get how not knowing makes it better -- even for a homophobe.


Perhaps the real solution to this problem is to spay and neuter all military personnel.
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