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Old 03-05-2007, 05:59 PM   #256
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511


you don't see your posts about not wanting to shower or cuddle with a gay person as not being degrading and belittling and expressing a desire to banish them from whatever sphere you choose?
Irvine,

If you wanted have a beer and talk, I’d do that. If you wanted to have dinner with my family, I’d welcome that as well. If you wanted to shower or cuddle with me – I won’t do that.

Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511


is it also not perfectly logical to take your previous post and substitute the word "black" for "gay" and you'd get a 1950s-era justification for the maintenance of a racially segregated army?
Were all blacks homosexuals? If not, this “substitution” wouldn’t work. This is a sexual tension problem and has nothing to do with race.
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Old 03-05-2007, 06:00 PM   #257
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Originally posted by deep






"In every office that I’ve ever worked in there is indeed a sexual environment"

What is the common denominator here?

What or who is the real problem?
Do you work in an office?
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Old 03-05-2007, 06:02 PM   #258
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In theory, AEON, the substitution works almost flawlessly. White men did not want to see it or acknowledge it in the 60s. Now white Christian men do not want to see it in the 2000s.
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Old 03-05-2007, 06:03 PM   #259
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Quote:
Originally posted by AEON


Do you work in an office?


my office is completely non-sexual.

you know why? i'm the only gay. and there are lots and lots of very pretty women.

it's just like ... showering at the gym.
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Old 03-05-2007, 06:03 PM   #260
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I guess the ideal is to separate by the sexes

that way there is no sexual tension.

and if that is not possible

the women should wear modest clothes and cover up
to prevent any sexual tension
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Old 03-05-2007, 06:04 PM   #261
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Quote:
Originally posted by AEON

Irvine,

If you wanted have a beer and talk, I’d do that. If you wanted to have dinner with my family, I’d welcome that as well. If you wanted to shower or cuddle with me – I won’t do that.



would you go to the gym with me, do some sets on the bench press, and then shower up and grab a beer afterwards?

if we were lost in the woods would you rather freeze to death than cuddle with me?

and chances are AEON -- I'M NOT GOING TO BE SEXUALLY ATTRACTED TO YOU! so what's the freaking difference?



Quote:
Were all blacks homosexuals? If not, this “substitution” wouldn’t work. This is a sexual tension problem and has nothing to do with race.
your discomfort with homosexuality is the same thing as whites discomforts with blacks.
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Old 03-05-2007, 06:04 PM   #262
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Quote:
Originally posted by AEON

In every office that I’ve ever worked in there is indeed a sexual environment. There are affairs, jealousies, flirtations, harassment, etc. I’m not saying that the office needs to be segregated. I’m just saying that there is indeed a sexual environment that exists and you must choose not to participate in order to avoid it.
The difference is that flirting and sexual harassment and anything else you mentioned are all outside the scope of job requirements and job duties and how all that is carried out. To exclude a gay man from anything that is a job requirement (including huddling and showering), and from a job, for those alleged reasons is wrong- plain and simple. The distraction is in the mind of the straight man, it is up to HIM to control that and deal with it- that is the solution, not to exclude the gay man. Or the woman.

If sex is the biggest distraction in the military, well we really have problems. Seems to me that fear would be-at least one of the biggest ones. Trying to stay alive and all that.

Men having sexual thoughts every minute or whatever it is is each individual man's issue to deal with-you don't punish women or gay men because of it. Gee how do you guys manage to function in a professional environment when all you can think about is sex, sex, and more sex?
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Old 03-05-2007, 06:06 PM   #263
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Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen
If sex is the biggest distraction in the military, well we really have problems. Seems to me that fear would be-at least one of the biggest ones. Trying to stay alive and all that.


i know! we're losing a war to Arab teenagers right now. you'd think there'd be bigger concerns.
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Old 03-05-2007, 06:09 PM   #264
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Clinton opens door to gay activists
Opposes 'don't ask, don't tell' military policy of husband's administration
The Associated Press
Updated: 2:44 p.m. ET March 5, 2007

WASHINGTON - Democrat Hillary Rodham Clinton told the nation's leading gay rights group in an unpublicized speech that she wants a partnership with gays if elected president.

Clinton also said she opposes the "don't ask, don't tell" policy regarding gays in the military that was instituted during her husband's presidency.

"I am proud to stand by your side," Clinton said in a keynote speech Friday to the Human Rights Campaign. Neither Clinton's campaign nor her Senate office made any announcement that she would be making the Friday address.

In the speech, Clinton joked that she shares the same initials as the group, and pledged to maintain the same close working relationship that last year helped defeat the federal amendment which would have banned same-sex marriage.

"I want you to know that this is exactly the kind of partnership we will have when I am president," Clinton told the group. "I want you to know that just as you always have an open door to my senate office, you will always have an open door to the White House and together we can continue this journey."

Clinton's husband Bill Clinton was president when the Pentagon instituted the "don't ask, don't tell" policy, which says gays may serve in the military only if they keep their sexual orientation private. In 1999, as she prepared to run for the Senate from New York, Clinton publicly opposed that policy.

Previous to Bill Clinton's administration, gays were flatly forbidden from serving in the military.

Sen. Clinton said it would be safer for the nation if openly gay soldiers, sailors, Marines, and airmen could wear the uniform.

"This policy doesn't just hurt gays and lesbians, it hurts all our troops and this to me is a matter of national security and we're going to fix it," Clinton said.

Her chief rivals for the Democratic nomination, John Edwards and Barack Obama, also favor repealing the policy.

She also attacked the Bush administration for making political appeals based on gay rights issues, vowing that her presidency would mark "the end of leadership that has politicized the most personal and intimate issues."

Human Rights Campaign vice president David Smith said Clinton's comments were "very well received," though he added the group is not endorsing any candidate and does not anticipate making an endorsement "anytime soon."

Clinton spokesman Blake Zeff said Tuesday the candidate "affirmed her desire to have a strong partnership with the community as president," adding they were "delighted" the speech was available on the Internet.

Clinton aides said no announcement was made because the group's gathering is traditionally closed to the press. Video of the speech was posted on the group's Web site.

Smith said such annual board meetings have always been closed to the press, but it was the first time he could remember that a speech at such a meeting had been made public afterward.

"There's no contradiction," he said. "The event is always closed to the press and we wanted to make (the remarks) available for people to see."
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Old 03-05-2007, 06:09 PM   #265
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Quote:
Originally posted by AEON


Do you work in an office?
I work in an office with about 130 people and 60% are women and a good number of them are quite attractive

I have worked in this environment for about 30 years

I make an effort not to cross boundaries, there have been times that I have gotten involved with people I work with

I have learned to try and separate personal and work time

there are some people that choose interact with each other on their own time

it is still a free country

all relationships are complicated
but, they can be very rewarding
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Old 03-05-2007, 06:23 PM   #266
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511



would you go to the gym with me, do some sets on the bench press, and then shower up and grab a beer afterwards?

if we were lost in the woods would you rather freeze to death than cuddle with me?

and chances are AEON -- I'M NOT GOING TO BE SEXUALLY ATTRACTED TO YOU! so what's the freaking difference?





your discomfort with homosexuality is the same thing as whites discomforts with blacks.
Aeon

something to think about

if you were lost in the woods

with your;

1. sister
2. grandmother
3. 30 year older than you aunt
4. neice


and had to cuddle with them to survive
would you have any inappropriate thoughts or attraction to any of the above?

I don't think you would, all females on that list, why do you think that is?


That is because you know they are off limits to you.

That they are not in an available group for a male / female attraction.


I hope you get what I am saying here,

Irvine, and any other gay man sees you
like you see that group

you (straight men) are not in an available group.
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Old 03-05-2007, 06:29 PM   #267
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I'm not a monster...seriously...

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Old 03-05-2007, 06:36 PM   #268
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem
In theory, AEON, the substitution works almost flawlessly. White men did not want to see it or acknowledge it in the 60s. Now white Christian men do not want to see it in the 2000s.
I suppose you mean that you think there should be ZERO discrimination of ANY kind? So the NBA should be forced to allow 4 foot 3 inch Centers because to deny them the chance to play and earn millions is discriminatory? How about MLB pitcher without both arms?

Not all discrimination is the same.
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Old 03-05-2007, 06:37 PM   #269
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nice picture

stay fit

did you read and think about my last reply?
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Old 03-05-2007, 06:38 PM   #270
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep


Aeon

something to think about

if you were lost in the woods

with your;

1. sister
2. grandmother
3. 30 year older than you aunt
4. neice


and had to cuddle with them to survive
would you have any inappropriate thoughts or attraction to any of the above?

I don't think you would, all females on that list, why do you think that is?


That is because you know they are off limits to you.

That they are not in an available group for a male / female attraction.


I hope you get what I am saying here,

Irvine, and any other gay man sees you
like you see that group

you (straight men) are not in an available group.
So a gay man would automatically know that I wasn't gay? How so?
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