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Old 03-09-2007, 12:57 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
If there was an instance where she said no, no but her eyes say yes, yes but it was done non-violently it would count as rape - given that the term is used for a whole spectrum of different situations is it hard to think that some fantasies would cross that line?
Saying no is saying no, period. There is no such thing as eyes saying yes, except in the delusional justifications of a rapist.
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Old 03-09-2007, 01:09 PM   #47
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Dolce And Gabbana 'Fantasy Rape' Ad

Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511

has anyone on here confused a domination fantasy with actual rape?
I was referring to the post that anitram quoted

Quote:
Rape fantasies are about submission, and giving yourself permission to engage in activities that you wouldn't normally find acceptable.
To me that is confusing the two
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Old 03-09-2007, 01:29 PM   #48
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i'm not going to get hung up on semantics "rape fantasy" vs. rape, because the poster made a clear distinction between the two.

i don't think the use of the term "rape fantasy" is in and of itself offensive, where as the phrase "fantasize about being raped" is offensive.
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Old 03-09-2007, 01:41 PM   #49
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Dolce And Gabbana 'Fantasy Rape' Ad

Quote:
Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen


To me that is confusing the two

In the next sentence she makes her point very clear, so I don't see any confusion.

In the overall context there is no confusion.
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Old 03-09-2007, 01:45 PM   #50
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Does what one person fantasizes about and another thinks is gross even matter with regard to the ad? Is the ad somehow more or less OK depending on what fantasy we attach to it?
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Old 03-09-2007, 02:29 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
If there was an instance where she said no, no but her eyes say yes, yes but it was done non-violently it would count as rape - given that the term is used for a whole spectrum of different situations is it hard to think that some fantasies would cross that line?
Mercifully most courts have recognized there is no such thing as implied consent in sexual assault cases so it's irrelevant what her eyes are "saying."
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Old 03-09-2007, 05:23 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen
Ask any woman who has been raped if she fantasizes about being raped again

People confuse fantasies about overwhelming passion and desire with rape. The two have nothing to do with each other
You're exactly right, but the only reason we're talking about rape is because this thread was started with the assumption that this ad was depicting rape....
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Old 03-09-2007, 05:26 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally posted by Canadiens1160
You're exactly right, but the only reason we're talking about rape is because this thread was started with the assumption that this ad was depicting rape....
I didn't start it with that assumption, it was pulled by D&G because people said it was depicting rape/ "rape fantasy". I think it is, and I think they knew just what they were doing.
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Old 03-09-2007, 05:30 PM   #54
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Well, I mean the discussion basically started in the context of rape, rather. My phrasing was a bit off.

I'm really undecided on this ad myself, but I still maintain that it isn't a stretch to say there's a percentage of women out there would have had fantasies of having sex with a couple of men at once. Would we be getting the same outcry from the ad with the sexes reversed that was posted on pg 1 of the thread?
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Old 03-09-2007, 05:33 PM   #55
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Do you think that ad looks like consensual sex with several men? Look at the way she is being held down, the expression on her face.

The way the others are watching reminds me of that case(real) from the movie The Accused.
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Old 03-09-2007, 05:39 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen
Do you think that ad looks like consensual sex with several men? Look at the way she is being held down, the expression on her face.

The way the others are watching reminds me of that case(real) from the movie The Accused.
Jody Foster aside, there are plenty of deviant facets of sexuality that involve domination and submission. So, although I do not necessarily disagree with you about this ad in question, it's also important not to paint with too broad a brushstroke.
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Old 03-09-2007, 05:47 PM   #57
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Maybe it's unfortunate, but most people don't have a hard time looking at that and seeing gang rape, and I'm sure the designers knew that. Of course it *could* be consentual but it's pretty obvious what that image implies for a lot of people in our society.

People do have rape fantasies (we agreed on that right?), but they are fantasies and are not meant ever to be acted upon. What if an ad depicted something else that is socially unacceptable but part of peoples fantasies...like implied sex with innocent-looking underdeveloped underage girls? Would people be ok with that because it's only appealing to fantasies and not actually advocating child molestation or rape?

I'm not sure if that's a good analogy but I'm just wondering if it's always okay to depict in a way that's not exactly negative people's fantasies, which would be completely wrong and horrible to act upon.
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Old 03-09-2007, 05:47 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally posted by Canadiens1160
Jody Foster aside, there are plenty of deviant facets of sexuality that involve domination and submission. So, although I do not necessarily disagree with you about this ad in question, it's also important not to paint with too broad a brushstroke.
It's not about Jodie Foster, that was a real case

And yes I'm well aware of those deviant facets. But corporations also need to take responsibility. And "strangely" enough it was seen in Europe as rape/rape fantasy-where attitudes towards sexuality are said to be much more liberal, if that's the right word to use. More open and accepting, perhaps.
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Old 03-09-2007, 07:39 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen


It's not about Jodie Foster, that was a real case

And yes I'm well aware of those deviant facets. But corporations also need to take responsibility. And "strangely" enough it was seen in Europe as rape/rape fantasy-where attitudes towards sexuality are said to be much more liberal, if that's the right word to use. More open and accepting, perhaps.
Well, the only reactions came from Spain and Italy, not Europe. (That shouldn't in any way say these countries don't belong to Europe of course.)
I have no information on how it was seen in the other European countries.
Spain and Italy are rather conservative countries and the people there are quite religious, so I think this might play a part.

I don't know whether this picture was shown in other countries as well, hence I can't say why there are no reactions form other European countries.

I understand that this picture really is really quite strange and the fantasies involved shouldn't be part of a large advertising campaign. There are magazines for such pictures I think.

The thing with the art; well, if it's art, put it in a museum. That's the place for art. A magazine or even a billboard is not the right place.

I'm ok with words like vagina in public, but I think it is going a bit in the wrong direction with this oversexation of advertisements. I don't care which fantasies are involved, but I really feel a bit uncomfortable when in the afternoon there is and advert with two literally having sex, or with the noise of it and all that.

Ok, this one still is quite funny
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Old 03-09-2007, 07:47 PM   #60
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