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Old 03-08-2007, 11:11 AM   #16
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D&Gs ads have always made me feel uncomfortable. It's odd that now there's such an outcry when this current ad really isn't any more degrading towards woman than their ads in the past. Perhaps we're all becoming too desensitized. I don't agree with the ad at all - I never have liked any of their ads and I won't ever buy their stuff - but really the only difference I see in this ad is that there's more than one man, and even that is present in some of their past ads. They're all some of the most over-sexed ads I've ever seen.

http://bwgreyscale.com/adimg14/adv_7816.JPG
http://bwgreyscale.com/adimg12/adv_6260.JPG
http://bwgreyscale.com/adimg13/adv_6784.JPG
http://bwgreyscale.com/adimg11/adv_5369.JPG
http://bwgreyscale.com/adimg11/adv_5007.JPG
http://bwgreyscale.com/adimg02/adv_0768.JPG
http://bwgreyscale.com/adimg09/adv_4284.JPG
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Old 03-08-2007, 11:15 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem
methinks we need to define "rape fantasies".

Alright, I meant domination fantasies, gang bangs, I-say-no-but-mean-yes fantasies.

Is the ad depicting rape, or a domination/gang bang fantasy? We'd have to make that conclusion as well....



I don't like it and I'm not going to defend it, it's just interesting that D&G has used plenty of ads like this, some even more offensive to me, yet people don't really notice. I guess enough people think it's hot or "artsy" enough to keep buying their products. I won't go picketing against their ad campaigns, but I'll continue to ignore them and not buy their products.

Rape/domination fantasy debate aside, I guess it's hard for me to be all "woe is me, woman" over some ads when women are still modeling for these ads and women are still obsessing over their products. It seems like there's always a disconnect between woman complaining about how the media over-sexualizes and objectifies them, and women who continue to buy these magazines and these products. I'd rather just ignore it than get stuck in the middle.
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Old 03-08-2007, 11:22 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by Liesje
D&Gs ads have always made me feel uncomfortable. It's odd that now there's such an outcry when this current ad really isn't any more degrading towards woman than their ads in the past. Perhaps we're all becoming too desensitized. I don't agree with the ad at all - I never have liked any of their ads and I won't ever buy their stuff - but really the only difference I see in this ad is that there's more than one man, and even that is present in some of their past ads.
I agree. I think it's odd there's an outcry now.

Does the fact that there's more men then women, make it offensive?
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Old 03-08-2007, 11:26 AM   #19
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Does the fact that there's more men then women, make it offensive?
Honestly, the ad doesn't really offend me. I don't like it, but I don't feel angry at it.

What offends me is people spending millions on these ad campaigns and millions on these clothes while children are still starving to death every 30 seconds, as obvious as that sounds. These ads represent a sub-culture or part of society that I simply will never understand and have no desire to be a part of.
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Old 03-08-2007, 11:31 AM   #20
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These Dolce and Gabbana ads are to sexiness to what the Pussycat Dolls are to empowering women.
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Old 03-08-2007, 11:36 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by Liesje


These ads represent a sub-culture or part of society that I simply will never understand and have no desire to be a part of.
I agree, probably another thread for another day, but it would be an interesting topic. Exactly who's fault is it? The uber rich, the fashion industry, etc...
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Old 03-08-2007, 12:14 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


I agree, probably another thread for another day, but it would be an interesting topic. Exactly who's fault is it? The uber rich, the fashion industry, etc...
A little bit of everything, I think. I can't take all the blame off myself when I know that if I got to chose between keeping my body or having hers, I switch any day.

I think they do it mostly to shock or draw any attention - positive, negative, or just inquisitive - to themselves. They may say they are doing it because it's art, and art should always push boundaries, but IMO the second merchandise is involved, it can't be about art anymore.
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Old 03-08-2007, 12:43 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem


Why do you think this?
The internet only proves that there are hundreds, if not thousands, of sexual fantasies out there. If a minuscule percentage of the population are aroused by adults dressing up as babies, humping balloons, or pouring wax on their breasts, you know there's probably going to be a subset of people who fantasize about rape in one form or another.

As for the advertisement in question, I didn't know the picture was the actual ad. If the guy wasn't holding her hand down, do you really think this ad would be considered a problem? Come on, you're telling me at least some women never have fantasies about having sex with multiple men at the same time?

If this were a similar ad in a mens magazine, perhaps with a guy in a chair, surrounded by scantily clad women with one holding him down, I doubt we'd be having this conversation.
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Old 03-08-2007, 12:56 PM   #24
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Who really cares. We talk about advertising, yet we see woman who dress as sexy to draw attention as do men to get woman.
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Old 03-08-2007, 01:00 PM   #25
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Companies run ads like this so that people have conversations like the one taking place right here. They're intentionally provocative, to create buzz and sell products. People go around asking, "have you seen the scandalous new D&G ad?!", which is music to ad execs' ears.
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Old 03-08-2007, 01:03 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by Canadiens1160
The internet only proves that there are hundreds, if not thousands, of sexual fantasies out there. If a minuscule percentage of the population are aroused by adults dressing up as babies, humping balloons, or pouring wax on their breasts, you know there's probably going to be a subset of people who fantasize about rape in one form or another.

As for the advertisement in question, I didn't know the picture was the actual ad. If the guy wasn't holding her hand down, do you really think this ad would be considered a problem? Come on, you're telling me at least some women never have fantasies about having sex with multiple men at the same time?

If this were a similar ad in a mens magazine, perhaps with a guy in a chair, surrounded by scantily clad women with one holding him down, I doubt we'd be having this conversation.
you mean like this one?

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Old 03-08-2007, 01:12 PM   #27
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The ad doesn't offend me personally, although I could understand some people being upset by it. The funny thing is they think they're being so deep and edgy, but it really comes across as pretentious and silly.
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Old 03-08-2007, 01:33 PM   #28
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Originally posted by Headache in a Suitcase


you mean like this one?




hey, lots of people fantasize about being watched by the severed head of Bambi's father.

on the whole, i don't like the ad. something strikes me as off. while i think we need to "read" in to find the potential rape, there's also ample, clear visual evidence for the sexual domination of one woman by several men. she seems powerless, devoid of emotion, they're all androids, and there's something surrealist sci-fi about the whole thing. i can clearly see how one could take this as a deadpan gang rape, which doesn't make it any less of a rape.

however, i think the earlier point -- that it could be a female fantasy about having numerous hot men have sex with her -- is a good one, and perhaps what the original intention was.

what turns this particular image from that read (and that, i think, could be empowering, that a woman can decide to participate in an orgy or not) and makes the potential gang rape "read" of the image better is that the man is holding down both of her wrists. that, to me, signals unwanted submission, whereas if at least one wrist were free, we could more readily read the "multiple partner" fantasy.

this happens when you try to go outre.

you can screw up. it seems D&G did, and i hardly think they're advocating rape or deliberately trying to send the message that "no means yes."

the viewer could read that into the picture, which is why the picture fails, but i don't think the intent is there.
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Old 03-08-2007, 04:00 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
she seems powerless, devoid of emotion, they're all androids, and there's something surrealist sci-fi about the whole thing.
Yeah, that was what I found "creepy" about it too. Of course lots of fashion ads seem to have that "android" conceit to them.

The comparison to the 'antler fetish' ad seems pretty irrelevant to me with regard to why the present ad is stirring controversy, though. Violent, nonconsensual penetration of men by women is extremely rare, so the way the possible range of scenarios invoked gets perceived is automatically different.

I'm kind of curious to know if anyone else had any thoughts on the "inspired by Napoleonic art" claim. Probably we don't have any art history majors around here and I'm certainly not very knowledgeable on the topic myself, however, I can see to a point how the ad could be said to resemble some Delacroix paintings, which combine apparently erotic imagery with violent imagery in a (vaguely) similarly unsettling way. I can't personally think of any Napoleonic-era art that combines those ideas this explicitly, though. To what extent is it legitimate and credible for a marketer to "justify" their work with such claims?
Quote:
Originally posted by Liesje
Is the ad depicting rape, or a domination/gang bang fantasy?
I realize you were just making it for clarification's sake, but I'm not sure that distinction is meaningful in the case of the ad. Of course it isn't literally depicting a rape, they're just models selling a product. It seems to me a 'domination/gang bang fantasy' is a rape fantasy--the only difference in real life is that the fomer could be consensual while the latter by definition isn't; but to talk about a 'nonconsensual fantasy' is meaningless.
Quote:
Originally posted by Justin24
We talk about advertising, yet we see woman who dress as sexy to draw attention as do men to get woman.
Why would that matter? The issue isn't how the woman or anyone else in the ad is dressed, it's what appears to be happening to her.
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Old 03-08-2007, 04:13 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by yolland

I'm kind of curious to know if anyone else had any thoughts on the "inspired by Napoleonic art" claim. Probably we don't have any art history majors around here and I'm certainly not very knowledgeable on the topic myself, however, I can see to a point how the ad could be said to resemble some Delacroix paintings, which combine apparently erotic imagery with violent imagery in a (vaguely) similarly unsettling way. I can't personally think of any Napoleonic-era art that combines those ideas this explicitly, though. To what extent is it legitimate and credible for a marketer to "justify" their work with such claims?
I was wondering the same, since many many images in art depict similar if not more disturbing scenes. However, I can't see any piece born of the goal to sell merchandise as true "art", but that's just me.

Quote:
I realize you were just making it for clarification's sake, but I'm not sure that distinction is meaningful in the case of the ad. Of course it isn't literally depicting a rape, they're just models selling a product. It seems to me a 'domination/gang bang fantasy' is a rape fantasy--the only difference in real life is that the fomer could be consensual while the latter by definition isn't; but to talk about a 'nonconsensual fantasy' is meaningless.
I agree, but then I don't think women can complain. If the ad is not actually depicting rape, but a domination fantasy, and many women DO have these fantasies, then we women can't say that the ad is absolutely unrealistic and demeaning. D&Gs ads are usually about fantasy, this one's no different. I just don't think there's much point in saying "depicting this fantasy is OK (or socially acceptable) but this one is not."
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