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Old 02-10-2005, 07:04 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally posted by STING2


I NEVER said Bono supported going into Iraq, in fact I stated that he and the Edge did not support the initial invasion of Iraq in 2003.

I did say that Bono supported the invasion of Afghanistan based on what he has said in HOT PRESS and elsewhere.

I don't pretend BONO supports anything, but many in the liberal crowd like to pretend he MUST support every liberal cause they love and the fact is , he doesn't.
Actually you said;

Quote:
Bono has said he supported the way that Bush went after the terrorist after 9/11 happened. It involved a lot more than simply the invasion of Afghanistan.
I assumed you were alluding to Iraq with the "it involved a lot more than simply invading Afghanistan" Maybe you were maybe you weren't.

But please get off the "liberal crowd" bullshit. The majority of liberals I knew did support Afghanistan.
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Old 02-10-2005, 07:13 PM   #62
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Originally posted by STING2


Listen, I dare you to tell any of the 8 million people that voted, that what they did last week was not real! My best friend in the US Marine Corp just got home from Iraq last week. His hard work over the past tour of duty, his second, has payed the way for these elections. The issue in this election was Iraqi Democracy and the voters voted for those they thought were most likely to support democracy and combat the terrorist.
Yes a lot of us know someone over there.

But tell me how they "voted for those they thought were most likely to support democracy and combat the terrorist", when most didn't have access to information on all the 7,000 canidates?
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Old 02-12-2005, 04:17 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally posted by Do Miss America


Actually you said;



I assumed you were alluding to Iraq with the "it involved a lot more than simply invading Afghanistan" Maybe you were maybe you weren't.

But please get off the "liberal crowd" bullshit. The majority of liberals I knew did support Afghanistan.
The HOT PRESS article is from December 2001! The Iraq invasion was not until March 2003!
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Old 02-12-2005, 04:32 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally posted by Do Miss America


Yes a lot of us know someone over there.

But tell me how they "voted for those they thought were most likely to support democracy and combat the terrorist", when most didn't have access to information on all the 7,000 canidates?
Most of Iraq is still organized on the local level politically through tribes and familys and this is how many gain their information. Remember, this election was for seats in the national assembly, so the voting was much more localized to specific area's. The Kurds have long known most of their chief political candidates and so have the Shia's to a lesser degree.

This election though was really more about showing up at the ballot box and simply casting a vote as opposed to those that boycotted the vote or attempted to attack it. It was about the Iraqi's that support democracy and those that do not. With over 8 million Iraqi's voting, its clear that democracy was the big winner.

I thinks its absurd to marginalize what happened two weeks ago as do millions of Iraqi's and the coalition troops and diplomatic and aid workers who have worked so hard to make this happen.

In post war Germany, it took several more years to have that countries first Democratic election following the end of Hitler's dictatorship. From a politcal standpoint, post Saddam Iraq is leaving post Hitler Germany in the dust in terms of the speed toward the devoloment of a democratic government.
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Old 02-12-2005, 04:42 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally posted by STING2


The HOT PRESS article is from December 2001! The Iraq invasion was not until March 2003!
Um, ok, have no clue what the hell that means in context to what we're talking about.
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Old 02-12-2005, 04:46 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally posted by STING2


Most of Iraq is still organized on the local level politically through tribes and familys and this is how many gain their information. Remember, this election was for seats in the national assembly, so the voting was much more localized to specific area's. The Kurds have long known most of their chief political candidates and so have the Shia's to a lesser degree.

This election though was really more about showing up at the ballot box and simply casting a vote as opposed to those that boycotted the vote or attempted to attack it. It was about the Iraqi's that support democracy and those that do not. With over 8 million Iraqi's voting, its clear that democracy was the big winner.

I thinks its absurd to marginalize what happened two weeks ago as do millions of Iraqi's and the coalition troops and diplomatic and aid workers who have worked so hard to make this happen.

No one is marginalizing shit. I'm stating what many have stated, even many in Iraq. Yes it's great that they got to vote and their turning out to vote was a huge sign that they want this. BUT even many Iraqis will agree access to the canidates and issues was lacking big time.
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Old 02-12-2005, 04:58 PM   #67
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Old 02-12-2005, 06:05 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally posted by Do Miss America


Um, ok, have no clue what the hell that means in context to what we're talking about.
Well, the HOT PRESS December 2001 article is where BONO expresses his support for the invasion of Afghanistan and the general war on terrorism. Bono had also worked with Bush in other area's.

Oh, I suggest you go back in this thread and read the first paragraph from my first posting in this thread, here it is:


"In the 2001 year end issue of HOT PRESS, BONO explains that he is NOT a pacifist. He also talked about his support for the Bush administrations war on terror including the invasion of Afghanistan. While its true the band did not support the initial invasion of Iraq, I'm sure they all support the development of democracy in Iraq."

That was several posts BEFORE you decided to debate what I meant by:

"Bono has said he supported the way that Bush went after the terrorist after 9/11 happened. It involved a lot more than simply the invasion of Afghanistan."
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Old 02-12-2005, 06:14 PM   #69
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Thanks for clearing that up.
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Old 02-12-2005, 06:19 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally posted by Do Miss America


No one is marginalizing shit. I'm stating what many have stated, even many in Iraq. Yes it's great that they got to vote and their turning out to vote was a huge sign that they want this. BUT even many Iraqis will agree access to the canidates and issues was lacking big time.
Oh, there is plenty of marginalization of the elections going on around in the liberal circles. Most Iraqi's supported the elections and believe it is one of the greatest victories of their lives. Those that criticize it fail to understand the bigger picture of what is going on and what is planned in just this year alone. One can find things to criticize in just about any democratic election that has ever been held.

I don't know precisely what each and every Iraqi new about Candidates and political issues prior to this election and neither does anyone else. But it is also irrelevant to what happened and the bigger process that is now under way. There was only one important issue in this election, whether you supported these elections and thought they were legitamite, or felt like the terrorist and Saddam loyalist did that they were not. There were only two true candidates, democracy or the Terrorist/Saddam Loyalist. 8 million people sent a message to anyone that thinks Democracy in Iraq is a fraud, can't happen, or is somehow flawed.
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Old 02-12-2005, 06:33 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally posted by STING2

But it is also irrelevant to what happened and the bigger process that is now under way. There was only one important issue in this election, whether you supported these elections and thought they were legitamite, or felt like the terrorist and Saddam loyalist did that they were not. There were only two true candidates, democracy or the Terrorist/Saddam Loyalist. 8 million people sent a message to anyone that thinks Democracy in Iraq is a fraud, can't happen, or is somehow flawed.
No it's not irrelevant. I agree this election is a great thing for the Iraqi people, but those thinking it's anything more than a symbol are fooling themselves. Plus we haven't seen the results and how the new government will run.
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Old 02-15-2005, 07:37 PM   #72
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What beautiful hand wringing and justification for Bono's apparent civility towards a Republican President.. God Forbid. But it's ok, He's really smart and knows what he's doing.

Bono bows to cash before any other cause.. See Ipod, $160 lower bowl seats, and Fanfire Fan Club. Not that I mind, I am the cousin of a Ticket Broker and have GA's to whichever show I please.

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Old 02-15-2005, 08:44 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nostradamus


Bono bows to cash before any other cause.. See Ipod, $160 lower bowl seats, and Fanfire Fan Club. Not that I mind, I am the cousin of a Ticket Broker and have GA's to whichever show I please.

.Nostradamus
Wow I thought this was one of the few forums that didn't have the hypocritical bitching from someone who talks about how Bono only cares about money, yet they're still going to shows. Guess I was wrong.

Maybe you should look at your own stances and causes before you blast anyone else.
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Old 02-16-2005, 03:57 PM   #74
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I am extremely liberal, and can't stand Bush, but when it comes down to individual issues, there are times when I do support some of his actions (although they are usually few and far between. My point is that having certain political beliefs doesn't mean not being in support of the policies of someone who has different political philosophies/is of a different party. Why can't Bono be against some things the U.S./Bush does, and for others? Its not always so black and white.

Meanwhile, on another note, why hasn't U2 taken any kind of stance on the Genocide going on in Darfur. They say that we should be looking at Africa as equals to the West, so they should be paying attention to the current genocide in Sudan between the Arab janjaaweed and the Christian Darfurians, backed by the Sudanese government in Khartoum, the capital. If u2 would start talking about it, so many more people in the world would start to take an interest in this horrible tragedy which has started actually making the front page of the New York Times.

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Old 02-16-2005, 07:56 PM   #75
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I'm really trying to stay out of this thread because I have already voiced my opinions on this subject before.

But let me just re-interate that U2 historically HAS TAKEN political stands BY THEIR ACTIONS.

What are some of those actions?

Their pro-choice and pro-contraception stance going back as far as 1978-1979

Their anti-nuclear (bomb) stance going back as far as the "War" album (1983)

Their anti-apartheid stance in the 1980's (VERY controversial and anti-establishment then)

Their support for Amnesty International (not a generally right-wing supported organization)

Their outspoken stance against the U/S. government's efforts to foment war and destruction in Central America in the 1980's

Their opposition of Pres. George Bush in the early 1990's

Their activities with Greenpeace (a much maligned organization by the right-wing) to shut Sellafield in the early 1990's.

Their outspoken support for anti-racist activities in Europe in the early 1990's.

Their support of the Muslims' right to live in safety and respect in Bosnia in the mid-1990's

U2's ANGRY rebuke of the former juntas of Argentina and Chile of the 1970s-1980s during the Popmart tour - juntas which were put into power with the money and support of the USA. (Remember Bono's vicious retort to former Chilean dictator Augusto Pinochet "Tell these women - where are their children?")

Bono's leadership (and U2's tacit support) of the "Drop the Debt" Jubilee 2000 movement of 1998-2000. This was definitely a political stance that was outside of the conservative viewpoint then.

Bono's chiding of the Bush administration during the Elevation tour of their lack of understanding of the dimensions of the AIDS pandemic in Africa - especially his criticisms onstage of Andrew Natsios (sp?) of the Bush Administration who said that Africans wouldn't be good at taking AIDS meds because they didn't have watches?

Bono's on again, off again relationship with the current Bush administration's policies toward Africa. Here are Bono's LATEST FEELINGS ABOUT THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION:



02.07.05

Bono's Reaction to Pres. Bush 2006 Budget Request


REACTION FROM BONO, U2 LEAD SINGER AND FOUNDER OF DATA:

"Good intention at the highest levels of the Bush Administration was not enough to deliver on the Millennium Challenge promise to the world’s poorest people in this year’s budget request. To make 2005 the year of a global breakthrough in the fight against poverty, we need the tens of millions of Americans who care -- who go to every church and rock concert -- to raise the volume before President Bush leaves for the G8's Africa summit in July."

REACTION BY JAMIE DRUMMOND, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF DATA:

“Not only has President Bush broken his word on funding for the Millennium Challenge, he has not put in the effort required to turn this excellent idea into a lifesaving reality for the world’s poorest people in the three years since it was announced. The pressure is now on for the President to demonstrate a serious commitment to helping the world’s poorest at the international Africa summit in July.”

Click here to download DATA's analysis of President Bush's 2006 budget request (PDF Format)


All these FACTS do show a definite political stance by U2. And, except for Bono's tacit support for the INITIAL stage of the "war on terrorism" (the initial invasion of Afghanistan) - the political stance is definitely from left field.

And I happen to agree with them. (Remember we all know how much the Edge despises George W. Bush).
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