Does anyone else find this more than a little disturbing??

The friendliest place on the web for anyone that follows U2.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.

sallycinnamon78

New Yorker
Joined
Dec 9, 2004
Messages
2,977
Location
UK
The first paragraph is VERY tame in comparison to what follows, so please bear with me. Read this bit and then look at the picture link and you'll see what I mean...
"In the 1930s we meet a young couple, Ethel and William. Ethel wore the shapeless dresses of the 1920s, had short hair, and didn't wear a corset, high heels, or earrings.Whenever William saw a woman who did wear any of them, if she was wore a corset. The corset that Will ordered without Ethel's knowledge had a waist size of 20". At first Ethel was not happy with this corset because not only was it long, its stays were extra stiff. She could not move her body easily.

Ethel soon became accustomed to this corset, which gave her a beautiful figure. Pain and discomfort [...] were not a problem in order to please Will."
Now, be brave. Go look: http://www.ethelgranger.com/index.html

Then, 'Will' ordered corsets for her while she was pregnant:

I ordered a the corsets, for Ethel without her knowledge, with a 20 inch waist, a regular listed size. (They could be got down to 19 inches waist without need of a special order.) In fact I also ordered a pair of the elastic inserted ones for her maternity wear in the later stages of pregnancy.

I told her that I had said before we married that I wanted her to wear real corsets. She picked them up, took one look at the colour, shape and size, felt the boning, then flow into a rage.

I had told her that was one of the attractions I had given up when I came to her from Mary who had worn corsets of that kind for years without harm.

Even then she stormed and wept, as she surveyed herself in the glass, saying that she could never go out like that, for she felt imprisoned and rigidly confined, so unable to bend... I was delighted with the improvement and had no hesitation in telling her so. I

. I said, ““This is so much nicer to hold you now. I love the feeling of firmness and stiffness. Besides, your waist is now so well defined and your breasts supported in the right position, I can feel them near me. At last you look like I hoped you might.”

She said, “Do you love your little Effie now she has given in for you?"
The fool's explanation? "Perhaps my interest in these things came from my early reading, in particular I remember old illustrated Fox's Book of Martyrs in which were illustrations of all kinds of fiendish tortures done in the name of religion. The tortures were horrible but in a way stimulating..."
http://biography.ethelgranger.com/000000948f0dab307/00000094900a1fc01/000000948f0eb0801/index.html

OH MY GIDDY AUNT BELINDA. What a lovely, romantic story - I DON'T THINK. Ugh! Had I been Ethel, I would have booted Will firmly into the middle of next week - while wearing those huge high heels that he loved so much, of course.

As for the website: it asks "what inspires someone to strive for the smallest waist on earth?" Body dysmorphic disorder, perhaps?! :ohmy:
 
Last edited:
Well this has gone on since the dawn of time. There has always been a domination of what women's asthetic should look like, from foot binding to corsets...

It still happens today. Believe it or not those high heels you are wearing are absolutely horrible for your health. I've known girls, not even in their 30s that have had to had surgery on their feet due to the footwear they "choose" to wear. Not to mention what it does to your spine...
 
BonoVoxSupastar said:
Well this has gone on since the dawn of time. There has always been a domination of what women's asthetic should look like, from foot binding to corsets...

It still happens today. Believe it or not those high heels you are wearing are absolutely horrible for your health. I've known girls, not even in their 30s that have had to had surgery on their feet due to the footwear they "choose" to wear. Not to mention what it does to your spine...
Agreed, but it's totally different. That is nowhere near the same as bullying your wife into reducing her waist to 13 inches when she didn't want it in the first place. This is far more extreme and far more unhealthy.
 
sallycinnamon78 said:

Agreed, but it's totally different. That is nowhere near the same as bullying your wife into reducing her waist to 13 inches when she didn't want it in the first place. This is far more extreme and far more unhealthy.

Yes I understand, but my point is that that bullying from ancient times(such as foot binding, etc.) still exists in one form or another...
 
BonoVoxSupastar said:


Yes I understand, but my point is that that bullying from ancient times(such as foot binding, etc.) still exists in one form or another...

Ah. You're right about that of course. Sorry for misunderstanding - I've been up all night with insomnia and my brain went to bed a long time ago!
 
All to attract and please their men, I'm thinking. As my friend Kevin (who is a woman) says, at least once a day, "Men are idiots." :lol:

Don't get me wrong: I like men (a lot!!). But men and women just think differently.
 
MsPurrl said:
All to attract and please their men, I'm thinking. As my friend Kevin (who is a woman) says, at least once a day, "Men are idiots." :lol:

Don't get me wrong: I like men (a lot!!). But men and women just think differently.

But doesn't the fact that women are willing to go along with some of these things say something as well?
 
MsPurrl said:
All to attract and please their men, I'm thinking. As my friend Kevin (who is a woman) says, at least once a day, "Men are idiots." :lol:

Don't get me wrong: I like men (a lot!!). But men and women just think differently.

Men are idiots because women do stupid things to please them?

That doesn't sound like an intelligent statement.
 
Last edited:
The thinness issue is a societal thing and something psychological that goes on within women, I don't blame them for that because I know what it's like and I feel it too. It's much bigger than "men being idiots" or "women doing stupid things or going along with it". But in some cases perhaps some women do do it in large part to be attractive to men, as many men aren't attracted to someone who is "overweight"-and by today's standards well that can be a strange and scary standard. It's rather ironic for someone to comment on it who says that Katie Couric is overweight.

When we're talking about anorexia that is a complex issue with numerous causes, but body image issues take many forms other than anorexia and bulimia, etc.
 
shart1780 said:


Men are idiots because women do stupid things to please them?

That doesn't sound like an intelligent statement.


Women who have so little self-esteem that they do things merely to please/attract men are idiots, too! ;)

Everyone is an idiot in his/her own way.
 
shart1780 said:


Men are idiots because women do stupid things to please them?

That doesn't sound like an intelligent statement.

I think the point was that men are stupid with their expectations of women and their shallowness.
 
I don't understand how it's stupid to have a narrow view of who's attractive. It can't be helped. If you're going to take the blame off of women for doing stupid things because society expects it of them maybe you should consider the fact that men find thin women attractive because society says thin women are attractive.
 
Last edited:
shart1780 said:
I don't understand how it's stupid to have a narrow view of who's attractive. It can't be helped. If you're going to take the blame off of women for doing stupid things because society expects it of them maybe you should consider the fact that men find thin women attractive because society says thin women are attractive.

:huh:

It IS stupid to have a narrow view of who's attractive. It's stupid to value looks as much as many men do. And it can be helped. It can be helped by growing up and trying to find real values in women.

It's not smart for women to conform themselves to society's view of how they should exactly be, but you seemed to take all blame off men. It's responsibility to both of them.
 
The story of that couple seems to be about a fetish. It's actually quite shocking especially taking place back in the 20's. He was a sadist. He journaled his evolution as such starting from the time he was 12 wearing womens clothes and piercing himself. Then finding a wife who would satisfy that.
 
phillyfan26 said:


:huh:

It IS stupid to have a narrow view of who's attractive. It's stupid to value looks as much as many men do. And it can be helped. It can be helped by growing up and trying to find real values in women.

It's not smart for women to conform themselves to society's view of how they should exactly be, but you seemed to take all blame off men. It's responsibility to both of them.

:up:

Shart, do you know what you are talking about?
 
That's not sexy or attractive, it's gross and sickening! I can imagine all her guts sweezed together. How long did she live? How did she go around pregnant without killing the baby? This is WRONG.

You know I've heard horror stories of bodies dug up when graveyards were moved for development, and the skeletons of Victorian women were said to be deformed, especially through the ribs, because of constant corset use. The corsets were also responsible for most of the famous 'vapours' and fainting spells ladies used to be famous for. There's no need for anything to be so tight.
 
shart1780 said:
I don't understand how it's stupid to have a narrow view of who's attractive. It can't be helped.

:mad: Oh, Christ on a sodding bike. Actually, no, make it a unicycle. I knew coming back here was a bad idea.

*Counts to 20 before resuming post*
Are you seriously trying to tell me that it is perfectly acceptable for men to mould women to their own needs and desires, as has been done throughout history, yet men are blameless in all this? Some things never change, it seems. :rolleyes:

If you're going to take the blame off of women for doing stupid things because society expects it of them maybe you should consider the fact that men find thin women attractive because society says thin women are attractive.
Talk sense, will you?
 
Last edited:
phillyfan26 said:


:huh:

It IS stupid to have a narrow view of who's attractive. It's stupid to value looks as much as many men do. And it can be helped. It can be helped by growing up and trying to find real values in women.

Aren't you like 16 or 17 years old? I am impressed. You put some men who are much older than you are to shame. Good on you there.

I guess it must be tough for some people to be so gorgeous and perfect that they are able to pass judgment on everyone's looks :shrug:
 
Last edited:
MrsSpringsteen said:

Aren't you like 16 or 17 years old? I am impressed. You put some men who are much older than you are to shame. Good on you there.

Yeah. Well said!
 
Having a waist that is about 70% of the hips is a cue of fecundity, things like clear complexion that signal youthfullness and reproductive potential are attractive. Now there is a lot of variation in human sexuality (now if we just ignore homosexuality for a moment) and I would agree that there is social control (the waxing and waning of what constitutes an attractive weight for instance), but theres a reason that we don't like asymmetrical faces or square jawed women; they wouldn't make as good a mate (asymmetry = ill health, and jawline a hormone proxy), sex drives are the concequence of evolution and aspects of human sexuality emerge from it. Variation between cultures and extremes like this sort of fetishisation are social but judging potential partners based on looks isn't and we shouldn't be apologetic for it.

And I say that as somebody who finds whatever vapid skeletor takes up the front page of the latest scandle mag rather repellent and definitely treats wit, charm and intelligence as traits right up there with looks.
 
Last edited:
I can understand guys prefering girls with slim waists, but I can't understand anyone thinking that ridiculously squooshed in the middle woman is hot. She looks out of proportionto reality. She looks like she's dying, like something heavy fell on her and she's being squeezed and suffering to death. That's not sexy, unless you have a very ill fetish, and then it's not healthy.
 
My point is that women feel that they need to be thin because society expects that of them. Men find thin women attractive because basically all of society tells them that thin women are the most attractive. What's the difference in this situation? Both the men and the women are striving for a standard. The men GENERALLY look for thinner women and the women generally try to be thinner. On the same note you could say that women look for guys that are in better shape and men (not as many, but still a lot) strive to get bigger and more muscular. It's just how society works.

I hate it when women go on about how stupid men are. I don't know, it's just really gets on my nerves. know how it feels to have your body picked on because I used to be pretty darn thin and girls didn't like it. I've gained a lot of mass since then, but 'm still thinner than average I'd say. Women find me WAY more attractive now. But you don't hear me going around talking about how stupid women are because they find me more attractive now. I think that's a silly attitue and it's honestly pretty annoying. This is how things are in the real world and it can't be helped. And I'm not saying all thin women are better in some way than heavier ones.

Of course I'm talking about initial attraction here. When you really get to know someone it probably won't matter nearly as much how they look (unless they're really beastly). It would be a lie if a woman said she'd find Brad Pitt just as attractive if he gained 100 lbs, and it would be a lie if men said they'd find Angelina Jolie more attractive if she gained 100 lbs (although she'd look better if she didn't look like the stick she is).

The girl I like A LOT now is overweight but I find her extremely attractive. I am attracted to her body, but I'm mostly attracted to her because of small things about her I've learned to appreciate that other men might not initially notice. The things that sort of epitomize her in my eyes. Would I find her more physically attractive if she lost a few pounds? Of course. Would it make me more fond of her? No.

And PLEASE don't put words in my mouth. When did I EVER say anything about it being ok for men to mould women? I never did. I just said thin women are generally more attractive.
 
Last edited:
I think if we look at the reasons why there is this dominant, anti-feminine aesthetic in the fashion industry, it could be because most designers are gay men, and they like to see their clothes on models who have boyish figures.
 
Last edited:
I didn't bother looking at the picture until now.

Wow. That's just disturbing. I wouldn't think that would be humanly possible. The woman's husband must have had a skeleton fetish or something.
 
Yes well, thanks for your comments. In the first place, this thread was about that sort of extreme modification, not stereotypes of attractiveness. Hence I posted the link to the pic and the articles. That is what I was banging on about in particular. Not the rest of it. As anyone who had followed the link and then read my comments would have understood.
 
Back
Top Bottom