Does anyone else find this more than a little disturbing??

[phillyfan26]

And PLEASE don't put words in my mouth. When did I EVER say anything about it being ok for men to mould women? I never did. I just said thin women are generally more attractive.

Uh, gee, I don't know...

I don't understand how it's stupid to have a narrow view of who's attractive. It can't be helped. If you're going to take the blame off of women for doing stupid things because society expects it of them maybe you should consider the fact that men find thin women attractive because society says thin women are attractive.

"Men find thin women attractive because society says thin women are attractive." Are men suddenly not part of society?

You said it's not stupid to have a narrow view of women's attractiveness. Uh, it is. Especially considering it's not usually a "view" but an expectation.

 

[shart1780]

Yes well, thanks for your comments. In the first place, this thread was about that sort of extreme modification, not stereotypes of attractiveness. Hence I posted the link to the pic and the articles. That is what I was banging on about in particular. Not the rest of it. As anyone who had followed the link and then read my comments would have understood.

Well maybe if you actually paid attention to what I was talking about you wouldn't have had a conniption fit on me.

 

[shart1780]

Uh, gee, I don't know...



"Men find thin women attractive because society says thin women are attractive." Are men suddenly not part of society?

You said it's not stupid to have a narrow view of women's attractiveness. Uh, it is. Especially considering it's not usually a "view" but an expectation.

Who said it's an expecation? If you're trying to tell me you don't find thin women more attractive than fat women you are a liar. Plain and simple. The reason you find them more attractive is because EVERYWHERE you look the media and pop culture and women talking about how fat they look conditions you to find thin women more attractive. Just look at other societies in other times in history where heavier women were considered more desireable. It's not because every man was born with a different brain. It's all about conditioning.

Yes, it's stupid if you can't get past how thin a girl looks and see her for her personality, but we will always find thin women initally more attractive because that's how we are. If you feel differently than you're abnormal. If you want to disagree with me then maybe you should take a look in all of the magazines and movies and TV shows. Are the most popular women overweight? No.

Good grief I can't believe I'm actually having to try and prove this point.

 

[BVS]

Yes, it's stupid if you can't get past how thin a girl looks and see her for her personality, but we will always find thin women initally more attractive because that's how we are. If you feel differently than you're abnormal. If you want to disagree with me then maybe you should take a look in all of the magazines and movies and TV shows. Are the most popular women overweight? No.

Do you realize how stupid this sounds? You admit you are shaped by media, but then admit it's wrong...

Yet you are calling those who don't fit to your standard, "abnormal".

Once again you fail to make any sense in this forum.

 

[verte76]

I have a picture of one of my ancestors. The lady is quite clearly wearing a corset. She looks like an hourglass. Yes, this is disturbing.

 

[phillyfan26]

Who said it's an expecation? If you're trying to tell me you don't find thin women more attractive than fat women you are a liar. Plain and simple. The reason you find them more attractive is because EVERYWHERE you look the media and pop culture and women talking about how fat they look conditions you to find thin women more attractive. Just look at other societies in other times in history where heavier women were considered more desireable. It's not because every man was born with a different brain. It's all about conditioning.

Yes, it's stupid if you can't get past how thin a girl looks and see her for her personality, but we will always find thin women initally more attractive because that's how we are. If you feel differently than you're abnormal. If you want to disagree with me then maybe you should take a look in all of the magazines and movies and TV shows. Are the most popular women overweight? No.

Good grief I can't believe I'm actually having to try and prove this point.

Somehow you are still separating men from society, the media, and pop culture.

 

[shart1780]

Do you realize how stupid this sounds? You admit you are shaped by media, but then admit it's wrong...

Yet you are calling those who don't fit to your standard, "abnormal".

Once again you fail to make any sense in this forum.

It makes perfect sense. I don't think you understand the difference between initial physical attraction and being able to look past it and find beauty in other things. My point is that men are initially more attracted to thin girls. I don't see how that's wrong. If we were going to a club together and we looked at two girls and I said "man, the thin one is really pretty, but the other one isn't that attractive to me because she's really overweight" you're not gonna say "OMG you're so mean and wrong! How dare you look at it that way!!". That attitude is just silliness.

It is wrong to be unable to look past that though. An example would be acknowledging a girl isn't quite as attractive to you because she's overweight and still liking her and finding beauty in other things about her other than just her waist size.

 

[phillyfan26]

But it's about where you lay the blame that's the problem.

 

[shart1780]

I don't think it's a problem. Why should I personally feel bad about who I find most attractive? I can't force myself to feel otherwise. At the same time I don't only give thin girls the time of day. Like I said, the girl I like right now is overweight. I don't understand who you think I should lay the blame on. The average joe guy, or the miniscule percent of people who actually control what we see in the media and such. As far as I see i they're the ones who set most of the trends.

 

[phillyfan26]

I find it hard to believe that the media is this completely separate entity from society.

 

[shart1780]

Well, why do you think men generally find thin women attractive?

 

[phillyfan26]

I certainly don't think the media sets every belief and we all blindly follow, which is essentially your argument.

 

[BVS]

As far as I see i they're the ones who set most of the trends.

So if "they" the mighty few that control your thoughts so much, told you only bald headed bearded women were attractive, you'd fall for it?

It makes perfect sense. I don't think you understand the difference between initial physical attraction and being able to look past it and find beauty in other things. My point is that men are initially more attracted to thin girls. I don't see how that's wrong. If we were going to a club together and we looked at two girls and I said "man, the thin one is really pretty, but the other one isn't that attractive to me because she's really overweight" you're not gonna say "OMG you're so mean and wrong! How dare you look at it that way!!". That attitude is just silliness.

I understand the difference, please, I'm not the one blaming media for my thinking...

 

[sallycinnamon78]

Well maybe if you actually paid attention to what I was talking about you wouldn't have had a conniption fit on me.

Oh, how ironic. By your own admission, you didn't even bother to look at what I was talking about in the first place! You derailed this thread from its original subject from the start, so YOU are the one who should have paid attention.

Take your own advice.

 

[shart1780]

I was replying to an already off topic post about how "men are idiots".

 

[shart1780]

So if "they" the mighty few that control your thoughts so much, told you only bald headed bearded women were attractive, you'd fall for it?



I understand the difference, please, I'm not the one blaming media for my thinking...

Maybe. If I grew up in a society that had been telling us that for centuries think there could be a chance. I couldn't imagine it, though. Those are completely masculine features, and I doubt those features were ever looked highly on in any time or civilaztion, and there's probably a very good reason for that.

And I feel no guilt whatsoever about how I feel. It makes me happy. If I was disgusted with myself every time I was attracted to a feminine slim girl over a fat, hairy, sweaty girl like you do, I'm sure I'd lead a less enjoyable life.

 

[bonocrazy88]

Sorry if I am interrupting a mini-convo within the thread...

I think the beauty modifications from the Victorian era (or whenever corsets were popular) have no place in modern Western society. Now, it seems to be more about natural beauty. I suppose I am not much pressured by the media at all, because I form my own opinions.

Then again, I am not sure how others feel about being pressured to be thin or whatever. I do not look towards celebrities or movie stars for guidance on body issues.

From what I have noticed about men is that body weight is not so much an issue as women may think. I truly think it's more about personality. I am saying this because I have seen very beautiful women (who are complete drags) get ignored because there are less attractive (but completely intelligent and stunning) women giving them more mental stimulation.

Not all men (or women) are just looking for a quick physical fix. I say this even though I am at the age when men seem to be at a sexual peak. Of course physical traits are important. I am not naive enough to think otherwise, but when it comes to settling down and having a great time with someone, I personally think personality rules.

This reminds me of a very cool story.

I have a friend who is somewhat overweight. She is amazing and funny and she's always the life of any party, but she sometimes get down that guys on't hit on her more often or look at her the way she thinks they look at other girls.

Well, while we were at the beach with a group of friends, one guy at the ice cream shop kept looking at my friend and when we all went outside to eat our ice cream, his co-worker came out and said "I just wanted to tell you that the guy in there...thinks you are really beautiful."

My friend was like "Me?" She could not believe he said that, which is terrible, because she is truly beautiful, but she felt self conscious that her weight made her unattractive. So she ended up going back in and giving the guy her phone number. Nothing really came of the whole thing, but hearing "You're sexy as hell," probably made her day. She told us she doesn't get that a lot and she thinks it's because of her size. So it was very cool to see that she was so happy to receive the compliment.

 

[bonocrazy88]

Just to clarify, I am a feminist, so I do not hate men or think they are to blame for any misgivings in society. I believe in equality.

 

[BVS]

Maybe. If I grew up in a society that had been telling us that for centuries think there could be a chance. I couldn't imagine it, though. Those are completely masculine features, and I doubt those features were ever looked highly on in any time or civilaztion, and there's probably a very good reason for that.

But you just got finished saying the "miniscule percent of people" that control how you think, you have put all the power in their hands with every post. So if they decided what was attracted you said you'd follow...

If I was disgusted with myself every time I was attracted to a feminine slim girl over a fat, hairy, sweaty girl like you do, I'm sure I'd lead a less enjoyable life.

Now you are just being an ass.

This was never about thin vs fat. That's not what this has ever been about. It started out as extremes that women would put their bodies in to appeal to that coulture.

I don't understand how it's stupid to have a narrow view of who's attractive. It can't be helped. If you're going to take the blame off of women for doing stupid things because society expects it of them maybe you should consider the fact that men find thin women attractive because society says thin women are attractive.

The problem I have with your posts is you take no responsibilty, you put all blame on "society", are you really that weak minded that you can't think for yourself?

 

[shart1780]

But you just got finished saying the "miniscule percent of people" that control how you think, you have put all the power in their hands with every post. So if they decided what was attracted you said you'd follow...



Now you are just being an ass.

This was never about thin vs fat. That's not what this has ever been about. It started out as extremes that women would put their bodies in to appeal to that coulture.




The problem I have with your posts is you take no responsibilty, you put all blame on "society", are you really that weak minded that you can't think for yourself?

I probably would follow. Again, I can't say for sure about extremely masculine features like facial hair, because as far as I know no one ever thought that was attractive on a woman. Centuries ago there was no media that had a huge hold on people's perceptions, but there were still a lot of perceptions that were a result of society and expectations at the time. There was a time when heavier girls were considered more attractive, and young men grew up thinking the same way. I can't make a blanket statement for EVERY guy then, but generally that's how it was. It's just about societal norms. I agree that it's wrong if guys can't look past it, but I think most can. I certainly can, and most guys I know can too, which is why I don't see it as a huge problem.

In fact, most of the time I feel that irls are far too hard on themselves when it comes to their looks, and I'm constantly telling them that they don't need to worry because they already look good. The only women I am REALLY not attracted to are the ones who take horrible care of themselves, which I feel is justified.

I stated way back that women shouldn't mould themselves in extreme ways to become more attractive to men. But there will always be the urge to improve yourself to become more attractive and find a better mate. That's human nature and I don't see anything necessarly wrong with it until it becomes unhealthy. It will never change either.

When you say I don't take responsibilty what do you mean? I'm not clear on what responsibilty you want me to take. Should I feel guilty that I find thin women more intially attractive? I don't get what you're saying.

 

[BVS]

When you say I don't take responsibilty what do you mean? I'm not clear on what responsibilty you want me to take. Should I feel guilty that I find thin women more intially attractive? I don't get what you're saying.

This has become pretty obvious, for you keep making the same statements, none of which really have to pertain to what we are talking about...

I've told you before this isn't about thin and fat.

The whole point is that since the beginning you have tried to make men the guiltless party in this obsession with body image. You've blamed "the select few" and women, and have left yourself out.

I'll quote you one last time:

It can't be helped. If you're going to take the blame off of women for doing stupid things because society expects it of them maybe you should consider the fact that men find thin women attractive because society says thin women are attractive.

It can't be helped? So men are just helpless drones to society? We demand big boobs, tiny waists, and long legs because society tells us this is what's attractive?

If you don't speak out against, and realize that the body image you are being sold isn't healthy or natural, then you are part of the problem. Quit blaming everyone else around you.

 

[struckpx]

i dig chicks who wear heels. sorry. nothing wrong w/ it. it makes a woman feel good about how they look i am guessing b/c us guys check them out. its a natural reaction, just like guys are supposed to be in good shape. its not worth debating over. we just like to look good. whats wrong w/ that?

 

[shart1780]

This has become pretty obvious, for you keep making the same statements, none of which really have to pertain to what we are talking about...

I've told you before this isn't about thin and fat.

The whole point is that since the beginning you have tried to make men the guiltless party in this obsession with body image. You've blamed "the select few" and women, and have left yourself out.

I'll quote you one last time:



It can't be helped? So men are just helpless drones to society? We demand big boobs, tiny waists, and long legs because society tells us this is what's attractive?

If you don't speak out against, and realize that the body image you are being sold isn't healthy or natural, then you are part of the problem. Quit blaming everyone else around you.

I'm not blaming women at all. I'm saying that calling men stupid for liking thin women is silly, because women are just as guilty. If men are guilty then women are too. I don't see how men are different than women in this regard. Both are trying to keep an image that pleases the opposite sex.

You act as if I'm blaming women instead of men, when in reality I'm not blaming ANYONE. I don't have a problem with men finding thin women attractive and I don't have a problem with women finding muscular men attractive. It's just the way things are. It's cause and effect. I don't see a problem. I don't see a problem with there being a standard by which physical beauty is judged. There will never be a time when EVERYONE is beautiful in our eyes. I don't feel like there's any injustice being done unless you're totally discounting a person because of their image.

 

[BVS]

If it's healthy and natural, there's nothing wrong with it, but that's been the point of this thread, some of the extremes are neither healthy or natural yet are very prevelant in today's society.

Sidenote: Many podiatrist and orthopedic surgeons wouldn't ever say there's nothing wrong with heels.

 

[shart1780]

I agree. I may find very thin girls more attractive looking, but I'd rather they gain weight if it was unhealthy for them. A girl of average weight is in no way unattractive in my eyes.

And I don't like high heels.

 

[BVS]

But the thing I don't think you get is I'm not blaming ANYONE. I don't see a problem with a standard by which physical beauty is judged. There will never be a time when EVERYONE is beautiful in our eyes. I don't feel like there's any injustice being done unless you're totally discounting a person because of their image.

Then what does this line mean:

It can't be helped. If you're going to take the blame off of women for doing stupid things because society expects it of them maybe you should consider the fact that men find thin women attractive because society says thin women are attractive.

Like I said this was never about thin. The red carpets and magazines are graced with skinny girls, fake breast, and very unnatural proportions.

 

[LMP]

There are flip-sides to every issue, too. Some people have weird weight gain fetishes that also contribute to unhealthy stuff in society.

It's just the other extreme, and like BVS said, they're still prevalent in today's society.

 

[shart1780]

The general view of men today is that a woman with thin waists, thing legs and big breasts are the most physically desirable. Men don't decide that these are the physical traits they prefer, it's just ingrained in them. Women shouldn't be angry at men because of it, but accept the fact that it's the societal norm today.

Just like women find musular men attractive. Men need to accept the fact that this is what society says is attractive. If they don't want to follow it, more power to them (as long as it's healthy).

I'm saying neither side should be blaming the other, because both men and women have a standard by which their physical attraction is judged by the general public, and all men and women have a standard by which they judge.

 

[struckpx]

The general view of men today is that a woman with thin waists, thing legs and big breasts are the most physically desirable. Men don't decide that these are the physical traits they prefer, it's just ingrained in them. Women shouldn't be angry at men because of it, but accept the fact that it's the societal norm today.

Big is out. Nicely proportioned is in, hahaha. Both guys (muscular) and girls.

 

[LMP]

Was that perception ingrained in them 500 years ago?

Were thin-waisted, buxom chicks in paintings? No, there were fuller women in there.

This might be a bad example, but look at some of Botticelli's work:

That was the normal perception of beauty back then.