Doctors and some scientists had it wrong, check out Team Hoyt.

The friendliest place on the web for anyone that follows U2.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.

diamond

ONE love, blood, life
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Messages
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This is totally amazing........


Be sure the watch the video at the end of the article.


More about the Hoyt*s
http://www.teamhoyt.com/


Strongest Dad in the World
From Sports Illustrated, By Rick Reilly

I try to be a good father. Give my kids mulligans. Work nights to
pay for their text messaging. Take them to swimsuit shoots. But compared
with Dick Hoyt, I suck.

Eighty-five times he's pushed his disabled son, Rick, 26.2 miles in
marathons. Eight times he's not only pushed him 26.2 miles in a
wheelchair but also towed him 2.4 miles in a dinghy while swimming
and pedaled him 112 miles in a seat on the handlebars--all in the same
day.

Dick's also pulled him cross-country skiing, taken him on his back
mountain climbing and once ! hauled him across the U.S. on a bike.
Makes taking your son bowling look a little lame, right? And what has Rick
done for his father? Not much--except save his life.

This love story began in Winchester, Mass., 43 years ago, when Rick
was strangled by the umbilical cord during birth, leaving him brain-
damaged and unable to control his limbs.

``He'll be a vegetable the rest of his life;'' Dick says doctors
told him and his wife, Judy, when Rick was nine months old. ``Put him in
an institution.''

But the Hoyts weren't buying it. They noticed the way Rick's eyes
followed them around the room. When Rick was 11 they took him to the
engineering department at Tufts University and asked if there was
anything to help the boy communicate.

``No way,'' Dick says he was told. ``There's nothing going on in his
brain.''

"Tell him a joke,'' Dick countered. They did. Rick laughed. Turns!
out a lot was going on in his brain.

Rigged up with a computer that allowed him to control the cursor by
touching a switch with the side of his head, Rick was finally able
to communicate. First words? `` Go Bruins!'' And after a high school
classmate was paralyzed in an accident and the school organized a
charity run for him, Rick pecked out, ``Dad, I want to do that.''

Yeah, right. How was Dick, a self-described ``porker'' who never ran
more than a mile at a time, going to push his son five miles?
Still, he tried. ``Then it was me who was handicapped,'' Dick says.
``I was sore for two weeks.''

That day changed Rick's life.

``Dad,'' he typed, ``when we were running, it felt like I wasn't
disabled anymore!''

And that sentence changed Dick's life. He became obsessed with
giving Rick that feeling as often as he could. He got in to such hard-belly
shape that he and Rick were ready to try the 1979 Boston Marathon.

``No way,'' Dick! was told by a race official. The Hoyts weren't
quite a single runner, and they weren't quite a wheelchair
competitor. For a few years Dick and Rick just joined the massive field and ran
anyway, then they found a way to get into the race officially:

In 1983 they ran another marathon so fast they made the qualifying
time for Boston the following year.

Then somebody said, ``Hey, Dick, why not a triathlon?''

How's a guy who never learned to swim and hadn't ridden a bike
since he was six going to haul his 110-pound kid through a
triathlon?

Still, Dick tried. Now they've done 212 triathlons, including four
grueling 15-hour Ironmans in Hawaii . It must be a buzzkill to be a
25-year-old stud getting passed by an old guy towing a grown man in
a dinghy, don't you think?

Hey, Dick, why not see how you'd do on your own? ``No way,'' he
says. Dick does it purely for ``the ! awesome feeling'' he gets seeing Rick
with a cantaloupe smile as they run, swim and ride together.

This year, at ages 65 and 43, Dick and Rick finished their 24th Boston Marathon,
in 5,083rd place out of more than 20,000 starters. Their best time? Two
hours, 40 minutes in 1992--only 35 minutes off the world record,
which, in case you don't keep track of these things, happens to be
held by a guy who was not pushing another man in a wheelchair at the time.

``No question about it,'' Rick types. ``My dad is the Father of the
Century.''

And Dick got something else out of all this too. Two years ago he
had a mild heart attack during a race. Doctors found that one of his
arteries was 95% clogged. ``If you hadn't been in such great
shape,'' one doctor told him, ``you probably would've died 15 years ago.''

So, in a way, Dick and Rick saved each other's life.

Rick, who has his own apartment (he gets home care) and works in
Boston, and Dick, retired from the military and living in Holland,
Mass., always find ways to be together. They give speeches around the
country and compete in some backbreaking race every weekend, including this
Father's Day. That night, Rick will buy his dad dinner, but the
thing he really wants to give him is a gift he can never buy.

"The thing I'd most like,'' Rick types, ``is that my dad would sit
in the chair and I would push him once.''

Here's the video....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROrRkW7koAQ&NR
 
The Hoyts are well known in New England. I've run road races with them in the field and they are much faster than me and most other people too. If I recall correctly, Rick also graduated from BU a couple years back. They are great people in every regard.
 
Terri Shiavo had no brain. Literally. The autopsy confirmed it. The only part of her brain left was the part that controlled involuntary functions, meaning that everything that was Terri--her consciousness, her memories, etc.--had literally disintegrated.

Terri Shiavo, essentially, was a corpse attached to life support, as you cannot survive without a brain.

Each medical case is different, obviously, which is why you cannot compare completely different patients with completely different circumstances. Terri's case was clear cut.

Melon
 
melon said:
Terri Shiavo had no brain.

, meaning that everything that was Terri--her consciousness, her memories, etc.--had literally disintegrated.

.

Melon

you hope.
 
Every case is different. I broke with my church (I'm Catholic, as you probably know) on the Shavio controversy. I didn't think she was alive, she didn't have a brain, she was a corpse waiting to be buried. Just my purple tuppence's worth.
 
as far as innocent life is concerned i will always error on the side of caution instead of convenience.

dbs
 
That is the oddest response I've ever read.

Yes, I do believe in something that arrives at conclusions based on observable phenomena and quantitative analysis. But yet I'm open minded enough to be able to change my belief if something comes along that proves it wrong. Another case completely unrelated to Schiavo doesn't prove a thing.
 
I remember seeing the Hoyts on Oprah last year and being truly moved and inspired by such unconditional, selfless parental love and what can be accomplished when you choose not to feel sorry for yourself or accept limitations.
 
AliEnvy said:
I remember seeing the Hoyts on Oprah last year and being truly moved and inspired by such unconditional, selfless parental love and what can be accomplished when you choose not to feel sorry for yourself or accept limitations.

Yes, and that is the purpose of this thread. :)

To point out that every life has value, to realize that all of God's children have a purpose in the grand scheme of things and to learn from those that can teach us the most.

dbs
 
diamond said:
To point out that every life has value, to realize that all of God's children have a purpose in the grand scheme of things and to learn from those that can teach us the most.

So I take it that if you're declared brain dead that you'll want your body hooked up to life support indefinitely?

After all, every life has value, even the lives of the braindead, apparently.

By the way, thousands of babies are born without a brain each year, and die within a week. I guess that means that God doesn't value life either, by your definition.

Melon
 
diamond, I made absolutely no reference whatsoever to hydrocephaly ("water in the brain"). I made a direct reference to anencephaly ("no brain").

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anencephaly

Infants born with anencephaly are usually blind, deaf, unconscious, and unable to feel pain. Although some individuals with anencephaly may be born with a rudimentary brainstem, which controls autonomic and regulatory function, the lack of a functioning cerebrum permanently rules out the possibility of ever gaining consciousness. Reflex actions such as respiration (breathing) and responses to sound or touch may occur. The disorder is one of the most common disorders of the fetal central nervous system.

In the United States, approximately 1,000 to 2,000 babies are born with anencephaly each year. Female babies are more likely to be affected by the disorder. About 95% of women who learn that they will have an anencephalic baby choose to have an abortion. Of the remaining 5%, about 55% are stillborn. The rest usually live only a few hours or days.

Terri Shiavo, while not a true anencephalic, because she was born with a brain, deteriorated into this condition. If you have no brain, you die. It's very simple.

Melon
 
diamond said:


Yes, and that is the purpose of this thread. :)

To point out that every life has value, to realize that all of God's children have a purpose in the grand scheme of things and to learn from those that can teach us the most.

dbs


Can I ask if you've actually ever taken care of someone physically or mentally disabled to the point he or she cannot care for him or herself at all? I have. For well over 20 years now and I'll tell you loads of people say "oh you are a wonderful person for doing this" but very very very very very few are willing to care for my profoundly retarded aunt for even one day while I take a break.

So it's very easy to talk the talk. I wanna know if you walk the walk diamond.
 
melon said:
diamond, I made absolutely no reference whatsoever to hydrocephaly ("water in the brain"). I made a direct reference to anencephaly ("no brain").

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anencephaly





Terri Shiavo, while not a true anencephalic, because she was born with a brain, deteriorated into this condition. If you have no brain, you die. It's very simple.

Melon

I still think the book may enlighten you a bit.

dbs
 
Yes the Hoyts are awesome and awe inspiring, but that doesn't mean we can pass judgment on anyone or everyone's personal situation because of what they do and did. It's awfully easy to do that when you don't have to live in someone else's shoes.

I'm quite sure everyone here knows that each human life has value and purpose.
 
indra said:



Can I ask if you've actually ever taken care of someone physically or mentally disabled to the point he or she cannot care for him or herself at all? I have. For well over 20 years now and I'll tell you loads of people say "oh you are a wonderful person for doing this" but very very very very very few are willing to care for my profoundly retarded aunt for even one day while I take a break.

So it's very easy to talk the talk. I wanna know if you walk the walk diamond.

Yes,I had a father in a wheel chair and although he was etremely limited physically, he had a great mind so no it wouldn't be the same.

I do bet that you have learned things about yourself thru your compassionate service you've given your aunt as I've learned things about myself when devoting my time and energies to assist those who needed assistance.

That said, I do feel this is why in the grand theme of things God places some of his children on earth with some limitations to teach us to be compassionate and to forget about ourselves thereby helping us becoming selfless and less self centered.

Our lives were made to learn to love, not hate and the way we learn to love is thru giving compassionate service to all of God's children (us) but particularily those less fortunate than us.

Does that make any sense?

Hope so.



dbs
 
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melon said:
diamond, I made absolutely no reference whatsoever to hydrocephaly ("water in the brain"). I made a direct reference to anencephaly ("no brain").

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anencephaly





Terri Shiavo, while not a true anencephalic, because she was born with a brain, deteriorated into this condition. If you have no brain, you die. It's very simple.

Melon

Not quite, you claim Terri had no brain, but Terri was alive until she was starved to death, even when she had people willing to take care of her.

dbs
 
Schiavo_catscan.jpg


It's not merely a claim. from wikipedia:

**Warning: Science talk ahead. Ask your kids to leave the room.** ;)
Microscopic examination revealed extensive damage to nearly all brain regions, including the cerebral cortex, the thalami, the basal ganglia, the hippocampus, the cerebellum, and the midbrain. The neuropathologic changes in her brain were precisely of the type seen in patients who enter a PVS [persistent vegetative state] following cardiac arrest. Throughout the cerebral cortex, the large pyramidal neurons that comprise some 70 percent of cortical cells—critical to the functioning of the cortex—were completely lost [emphasis mine]. The pattern of damage to the cortex, with injury tending to worsen from the front of the cortex to the back, is also typical. There was marked damage to important relay circuits deep in the brain (the thalami)—another common pathologic finding in cases of PVS. The damage was, in the words of Thogmartin [who led the autopsy], "irreversible, and no amount of therapy or treatment would have regenerated the massive loss of neurons."

In addition, scores of neurologists studied Schiavo's behavior over the course of her life post-collapse and came to the conclusion that she did not show any signs of cognitive recognition, and any movements or responses she did give were not consistent or repeatable (i.e., all evidence points to her movements being reflexive and instinctual rather than cognitive awareness of her surroundings).

I can pretty much guarantee you that these same doctors would look at the Hoyt case and find that yes, obviously there is cognitive awareness.

Now, what I find more interesting in regards to the Schiavo case is that the medical examiners ruled out a heart attack or any eating disorder, two things which Michael Schiavo believes were at fault (he even won a $1M settlement against Terri's obstetrician for failure to diagnose bulimia). Though they pretty ruled out obvious foul play (violence of any sort) as well.
 
Diemen said:
Schiavo_catscan.jpg


It's not merely a claim. from wikipedia:

**Warning: Science talk ahead. Ask your kids to leave the room.** ;)


In addition, scores of neurologists studied Schiavo's behavior over the course of her life post-collapse and came to the conclusion that she did not show any signs of cognitive recognition, and any movements or responses she did give were not consistent or repeatable (i.e., all evidence points to her movements being reflexive and instinctual rather than cognitive awareness of her surroundings).

I can pretty much guarantee you that these same doctors would look at the Hoyt case and find that yes, obviously there is cognitive awareness.

Now, what I find more interesting in regards to the Schiavo case is that the medical examiners ruled out a heart attack or any eating disorder, two things which Michael Schiavo believes were at fault (he even won a $1M settlement against Terri's obstetrician for failure to diagnose bulimia). Though they pretty ruled out obvious foul play (violence of any sort) as well.

and your point is?

dbs
 
diamond said:
Not quite, you claim Terri had no brain, but Terri was alive until she was starved to death, even when she had people willing to take care of her.

Tell me, diamond. How do you think the small percentage of anencephalic babies who survive birth die? Someone with official medical knowledge can correct me if I'm wrong, but they die of starvation, which can take up to a week. Since euthanasia in any form is seen as unethical, they are left to starve to death, since they are, essentially, "living corpses." Without a brain, without consciousness, without feeling, what are you?

I don't care if there were people willing to take care of Terri. There was nothing left to take care of. Without a brain, without consciousness, without feeling, she was a living corpse. All people did was give her parents false hope, and it is very unfortunate that they were led on for so many years to think otherwise.

Nobody said that life was fair.

Melon
 
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