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Old 01-14-2005, 02:14 PM   #46
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by cardosino
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


God also taught that the penalty for murder is death. I understand it is the only law that is mentioned in all five books of the Pentatuch. Jesus merely acknowledges the penalty.

Jesus never suggested that there should be no consequences to our behavior.
[/QUOTE

I'm not well-armed enough to go toe-to-toe on scripture, but given the nature of Jesus as I know it, I doubt he would approve of th edeath penalty, in fact i'd be more inclined to believe he'd think a heinous abomination. there's a reason most Christian-based churches are actually against it.

If you have pre-death penalty scripture and Jesus's condoning of such, I'd be honestly interested to see it.
Well, that is one of the major problems we have with biblical interpretation. We start with what we want to believe about Jesus (his nature), then fill in Scripture to get there.
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Old 01-14-2005, 02:17 PM   #47
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I was brought up to support it, on religious grounds.


I sat through a murder trial, once.

The victim was an 18 year old.
He was tortured for three days and then strangled with his own shoe laces.
Before he died his 17-year-old girlfriend was raped in the next room.
She was shot in the face and thrown down a ravine in a remote area and left for dead.

Somehow she lived and that is why the 3 murderers were caught.
I picked this kid up from school a few times. His mom is a personal friend.

Sitting through the trial was nauseating.
His family can live with the life sentences. I can, too.


U2kitten, I am sorry for you friends and family.
I do empathize.

God may be able to apply perfect justice.
Men certainly cannot.

We need to abolish the death penalty.
It is not possible to administer it properly.
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Old 01-14-2005, 02:20 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


Well, that is one of the major problems we have with biblical interpretation. We start with what we want to believe about Jesus (his nature), then fill in Scripture to get there.
Do you include yourself in that we?
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Old 01-14-2005, 02:20 PM   #49
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Nice post, deep.
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Old 01-14-2005, 02:21 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


Well, that is one of the major problems we have with biblical interpretation. We start with what we want to believe about Jesus (his nature), then fill in Scripture to get there.
So you believe Jesus who taught forgiveness and helping the less fortunate would be pro-death penalty ?

Interesting.

The Catholic, Lutheran, Episcopal, Methodist churches etc are all anti-death penalty, and I'm sure they know more about scripture than I do.

I'll go with the Jesus of Matthew, not the one you think would happily take another man's life as a punishment. On this we can agree to disagree. Cheers.

"Thou shalt not kill"
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Old 01-14-2005, 02:23 PM   #51
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well done deep. on both posts.

your story is horrifying beyond words. as is U2Kitten's. it shocks me that people are capable of such cruelty, utterly shocks me.

i am so sorry for everyone.
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Old 01-14-2005, 03:19 PM   #52
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well done deep. on both posts.

your story is horrifying beyond words. as is U2Kitten's. it shocks me that people are capable of such cruelty, utterly shocks me.

i am so sorry for everyone.


U2Kitten capable of cruelty? You say that about me and nothing about the murderers in the stories I told?? What's wrong with this picture?? You are seeing the wrong people as cruel and making a victim of the wrong person!

NBC, I agree, no one ever said there should be no consequences for our actions. I hope you can help me find the 'he who hurts these little ones' passage someone claimed didn't exist. I know I've seen it. Also, the Bible does teach that the wages of sin is death. That's the problem with the attitude that everyone is a victim and there should be no retribution for our actions. I cannot deal with that. There has to be justice. And no, life in a cell living better than a homeless person is not punishment enough for the extreme cases I have mentioned.

Deep, thank you, I'm so glad someone cared.
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Old 01-14-2005, 03:21 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally posted by cardosino


I'll go with the Jesus of Matthew, not the one you think would happily take another man's life as a punishment. On this we can agree to disagree. Cheers.

"Thou shalt not kill"
I doubt anybody on this thread would be HAPPY about taking another man's life as a punishment, nor would they claim that Jesus would. You have to be careful when summing up another's point of view to make a point.

I prefer to leave Jesus out of it because you're not going to influence anybody who doesn't accept the Bible as the word of God. I'll discuss anything Christian to Christian based on biblical teaching, but in a general forum I can just as easily make my arguments on any issue without quoting the Bible. Conversely, I don't think it proper or necessarily effective for non-Christians to quote the Bible, a source they don't see as authoratative.
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Old 01-14-2005, 03:23 PM   #54
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Erm... U2Kitten, I don't think Irvine said that 'you' were capable of cruelty, but rather, you provided examples or case studies of such - if I'm not mistaken.

Lets not be too hasty.

Ant.
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Old 01-14-2005, 03:30 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2Kitten


NBC, I agree, I hope you can help me find the 'he who hurts these little ones' passage someone claimed didn't exist. I know I've seen it.
For U2Kitten:

you can go to google.com and search "the Bible on Abortion" and see what you find. I didn't see the passage you were referring to in the minute that I had but you may find it.

But I can make the scientific and humanistic case againts the big "A" quite effectively. Good Luck.
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Old 01-14-2005, 03:37 PM   #56
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I am opposed to the death penalty. My favorite American Cardinal, Cardinal Joseph Bernardin, wrote alot about a "consistent life ethic". This is basically the teaching that only God can decide when a life starts and when a life ends. It is in no way based on any sort of sympathy towards the killer. This involves all sorts of incredibly complex issues, and I don't claim I have them figured out. In fact, I'm stuck in some contradictions with this right now and I'm trying to figure it all out. But put me in the column of people opposed to capital punishment. It doesn't save the taxpayer's money, as has been pointed out. States spend fortunes on the appellate process, which is crucial.
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Old 01-14-2005, 04:07 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2Kitten




U2Kitten capable of cruelty? You say that about me and nothing about the murderers in the stories I told?? What's wrong with this picture?? You are seeing the wrong people as cruel and making a victim of the wrong person!

NBC, I agree, I hope you can help me find the 'he who hurts these little ones' passage someone claimed didn't exist. I know I've seen it. Also, the Bible does teach that the wages of sin is death. That's the problem with the attitude that everyone is a victim and there should be no retribution for our actions. I cannot deal with that. There has to be justice. And no, life in a cell living better than a homeless person is not punishment enough for the extreme cases I have mentioned.

Deep, thank you, I'm so glad someone cared.
Did you just stop reading people's post all together?
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Old 01-14-2005, 04:08 PM   #58
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Okay, sorry Ant. I misread it and thought he/she was thinking I was cruel for thinking they should get the death penalty.
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Old 01-14-2005, 05:07 PM   #59
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i was referring to the horrible story you told of the 6 year old boy.

please read my posts if you're going to respond to them.
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Old 01-14-2005, 06:12 PM   #60
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I must run now before I get myself banned.
Please take your own advice.
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