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Old 01-14-2005, 07:00 AM   #16
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How did I know this was going to happen, and how did I know who.
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Old 01-14-2005, 07:04 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
"for all who draw the sword will die by the sword"

Yes, the death penalty is an acceptable punishment.
I believe in the context that this was meant as a prediction, not a command.

Jesus taught extensively about forgiveness, and cautioned against revenge.

I don't believe for one second that Jesus would be pro-revenge and pro-institutionalized murder, but that's me.

Matthew 5:38-48

"Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also. And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away. Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. "
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Old 01-14-2005, 07:05 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by cardosino


I believe in the context that this was meant as a prediction, not a command.

Jesus taught extensively about forgiveness, and cautioned against revenge.

I don't believe for one second that Jesus would be pro-revenge and pro-institutionalized murder, but that's me.

Matthew 5:38-48

"Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also. And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away. Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. "
Thanks.
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Old 01-14-2005, 07:07 AM   #19
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Yes indeed, thank you cardosino.

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Old 01-14-2005, 07:36 AM   #20
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I am also going to try to hold my temper and ask why there is so much sympathy for the murderer and none for the victims, even the ones in the true stories I described? Something is very very wrong here.



What a sick and twisted world.
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Old 01-14-2005, 07:38 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2Kitten
I am also going to try to hold my temper and ask why there is so much sympathy for the murderer and none for the victims, even the ones in the true stories I described? Something is very very wrong here.



What a sick and twisted world.
Where is it said that no-one has sympathy for the victims ?

I mean, you said "none for the victims".........
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Old 01-14-2005, 07:58 AM   #22
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I have read through all these posts twice, and I don't believe anyone has any sympathy for the criminal at all. I thought that the discussion was more about as a society are we any better by condemming people to death than those committing the crimes?

I honestly don't know how I would feel if someone I loved was hurt in any way by another person or how I would want them punished. I do know that no matter what punishment is given it is not going to change the crime that has been committed or the impact on everyone involved.
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Old 01-14-2005, 08:22 AM   #23
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It is irrevocable and can be inflicted on the innocent. In some countries it is even used as a political tool to silence individuals. It has never been shown to deter crime more effectively than other punishments. And it can't undo the crime they had commited either.
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Old 01-14-2005, 08:29 AM   #24
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Then the teenagers that did break my glass car window to steal from me I can steal from their home. No. It is then to make me as bad as they are. So I can chop off their hands. No, I would like but it would be wrong. But then what to do?
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Old 01-14-2005, 08:39 AM   #25
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As a Christian, (and someone who's against abortion by the way) I am opposed to the death penalty. It's a very flawed system. It's been proven racist. It's taken the lives of mentally ill. And for those who like to talk about the money side of things, it's more expensive to execute someone when you factor in all the appeals costs. The most important thing however, is it's been proven to not give the family the closure they were looking for. It still doesn't bring back their loved one and now their death is remembered along with another. As a Christian, forgiveness is the key. If I'm to forgive someone for killing a friend or family member, as I know Christ would want me to, then what good does it do for me to support their death? I think that just adds to the false need for "revenge," which is not Biblical.
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Old 01-14-2005, 08:45 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by coemgen
As a Christian, (and someone who's against abortion by the way) I am opposed to the death penalty. It's a very flawed system. It's been proven racist. It's taken the lives of mentally ill. And for those who like to talk about the money side of things, it's more expensive to execute someone when you factor in all the appeals costs. The most important thing however, is it's been proven to not give the family the closure they were looking for. It still doesn't bring back their loved one and now their death is remembered along with another. As a Christian, forgiveness is the key. If I'm to forgive someone for killing a friend or family member, as I know Christ would want me to, then what good does it do for me to support their death? I think that just adds to the false need for "revenge," which is not Biblical.



Bible aside, this is thoroughly logical from a secular standpoint. the death penalty simply doesn't make any sense other than to satisfy the understandable but irrational need for revenge.

ah, the secular and the religious finding points of commonality, arriving at the same conclusion via different paths ...
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Old 01-14-2005, 08:48 AM   #27
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See Irvine, we have something in common other than U2.
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Old 01-14-2005, 09:00 AM   #28
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I am not talking 'revenge' I'm saying that how can a person who has done such unspeakable things that I mentioned in my post possibly deserve to live and be fed and kept by the state? Homeless people live in worse conditions than prisoners. And while my views are not based on religion, those tossing 'forgiveness' around should also note the Bible verse, I can't name the book and number on it, that Jesus said 'he who harms one of these little ones shall not enter the kingdom of Heaven' making me believe that child killing is indeed an unforgiveable sin. I had always been told growing up that any murder was an unforgiveable sin.

And as far as 'won't bring the victim back' does that mean we should just let anyone do what they want? I do believe there has to be some kind of retribution for extreme henious crimes, and set an example for others as a possible detterant. It may not work, but it's worth a try.

Look at what prison life really is- it's a free home. They feed you, you have a bed, a toilet, 2 showers a week. There are people in America who have none of those things. Some criminals don't even want to be free because they'd have to work for a living and pay for things. In a way, jail is a free ride, so they're not even suffering! As I posted once before, I have a friend whose husband actually told her this, he wanted to kill her and he didn't care if he went to jail because he'd get a free home and free food and just get to lay around reading and never have to work and he'd be rid of her and laugh inside every day he was living and she was not. That's the kind of mind these criminals have. They do not deserve to live and breathe and eat after they have tortured and killed someone intentionally and cruelly.
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Old 01-14-2005, 09:02 AM   #29
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in some ways i think there are people out there who commit crimes so heinous they dont deserve to live and in that sense i agree with the death penalty

BUT

i dont think we as human beings are capable as a soceity to fairly hand out that punishment. as somone pointed out, its a flawed system - it can be racist and prejudiced in far too many ways and the possibility that what one person may view as a crime worthy of the death penalty another person may not, is indiciative of the unfairness and unreliabilty of the system.
human beings are naturally emotive and i think we all know that emotions can stop someone from making a rational or well judged decision.
basically i dont think we're strong in mind enough to handle the responsibility of FAIRLY deciding who lives and who dies.

so while i might not necessarily disagree with the theory of the death penalty, i dont think we should have it either.
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Old 01-14-2005, 09:23 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2Kitten
I am not talking 'revenge' I'm saying that how can a person who has done such unspeakable things that I mentioned in my post possibly deserve to live and be fed and kept by the state?
Because we're not barbaric animals ?

Quote:
Originally posted by U2Kitten

Homeless people live in worse conditions than prisoners.
Different topic

Quote:
Originally posted by U2Kitten

And while my views are not based on religion, those tossing 'forgiveness'
It's not about pro-forvigeness, but anti-revenge-murdering
Quote:
Originally posted by U2Kitten



And as far as 'won't bring the victim back' does that mean we should just let anyone do what they want?
Leap of logic of Bob Beamon-esque proportions

Quote:
Originally posted by U2Kitten
I do believe there has to be some kind of retribution for extreme henious crimes, and set an example for others as a possible detterant. It may not work, but it's worth a try.
[/B]
Death Penalty has been tried and doesn't work as a deterent

Fact
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