Do you think Drinking during Pregnancy should be considered Child Abuse?

[Catman]

I was thinking about this earlier today, and decided that when I'm president, I'm gonna make it so. Seriously, FAS (fetal alcohol syndrome) is the NUMBER ONE cause of mental retardation An infant can be really screwed up if it's not taken care of while in the womb.

I'm guessing this is the right forum, but regardless, does anyone else agree with me, here? Smoking, of course, can also be harmful to the baby, but not to the degree that drinking is

 

[beli]

Drinking, smoking, drugs are all addictions that the mother may have had for some time. Giving up cold when pregnant may be difficult.

Also conceiving and then knowing about it can take a few weeks. I know I had a few drinks of red wine one Christmas and then found out a few days later I was pregnant with my first child. I didnt drink once I knew.

And I have a friend who didnt know she was pregnant until she was 5 months pregnant (long story)

Most people I know behave themselves when they know they are pregnant.

I think the Fetal Alcohol Syndrome mothers you mention are possibly either alcoholics and wouldnt comprehend a law enforcement or not very educated in which case the result is the same.

But yeah, tis a tragedy.

 

[Angela Harlem]

If you were my president or pm I'd support that.

But that said, as beli mentioned, it isn't always as straight forward as that. I found out I was preggers over a long weekend and had had a horrifically huge night of drinking on the Friday before finding out on the Sunday. By the time I finally spoke to a medical expert I was frantic worrying about the damage I'd unknowingly caused. The midwife laughed at me and said my worrying was more of a concern than anything. Needless, I didnt touch another drop of alcohol after that. About halfway through i then got chatting with the specialist who tested for abnormalities and he said it was believed in the medical community to continue smoking if you did already but not more than about 10 a day. Just enough to prevent cravings causing more harm and stress. And alcohol was always said to be something that was still ok in extreme moderation. Ie a glass a month or something.

And while I reckon we often underestimate how tough a little unborn baby can be, we can never do too much to help ensure they are given the best start to life.

 

[bonosloveslave]

It churns my stomach when I see a pregnant woman smoking

 

[BluberryPoptart]

Why, as long as killing your unborn child through abortion remains legal and defended?

 

[Angela Harlem]

Can we please please please wait a couple of months for the next abortion thread? We all need a rest!

*begs*

 

[cell]

drinking and smoking during pregnancy should be considered attempted murder. if the woman obviously knew, that is.

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

Short answer: no. Two main reasons: Firstly, how can you prosecute someone for child abuse if they weren't even aware they were pregnant when they drank alcohol? Secondly, there's a huge difference between a pregnant woman drinking one or two glasses of wine a week (which many medical experts believe is not harmful to the child) and a pregnant woman drinking enough alcohol to cause harm to the child, and saying that drinking any alcohol while pregnant is "child abuse" doesn't take account of that difference.

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

drinking and smoking during pregnancy should be considered attempted murder. if the woman obviously knew, that is.

So if a woman smokes or drinks during pregnancy she must be actively trying to kill her child?

 

[Catman]

Short answer: no. Two main reasons: Firstly, how can you prosecute someone for child abuse if they weren't even aware they were pregnant when they drank alcohol? Secondly, there's a huge difference between a pregnant woman drinking one or two glasses of wine a week (which many medical experts believe is not harmful to the child) and a pregnant woman drinking enough alcohol to cause harm to the child, and saying that drinking any alcohol while pregnant is "child abuse" doesn't take account of that difference.

Firstly, I think the woman should drink responsibly (or none at all) a few weeks after having sex...or whenever it is she has her period. As long as the woman knows there is a chance she *might* be pregnant, she shouldn't risk consuming large amounts of alcohol (afterall, the first trimester is the most critical period of the fetus' life). Secondly...yes, drinking 1 or 2 glasses a week throughout pregnancy *should* be a.o.k. for the infant (as opposed to getting completely wasted on a particular night), but nothing is a guarantee, and should the child develope a neurodevelopmental problem, the mother should be held responsible.


beli - She didn't know she was pregnant until she was halfway through the second trimester?! That's crazy! You say there's a long story to it, do you mind indulging us/me??? You've peaked my interest

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

Firstly, I think the woman should drink responsibly (or none at all) a few weeks after having sex...or whenever it is she has her period. As long as the woman knows there is a chance she *might* be pregnant, she shouldn't risk consuming large amounts of alcohol (afterall, the first trimester is the most critical period of the fetus' life).

Then what you're actually saying is that any woman who is sexually active shouldn't drink, since not drinking within a few weeks of having sex would mean not drinking at all for many people in a relationship. Even if she's using contraception, there is still a chance she *might* be pregnant, since no method of contraception is 100% effective.

 

[beli]

beli - She didn't know she was pregnant until she was halfway through the second trimester?! That's crazy! You say there's a long story to it, do you mind indulging us/me??? You've peaked my interest

Ok TMI here we go. Shes a big girl to start with, Aboriginal. She had her period regularly throughout her pregnancy. Apparently thats pretty normal for people who dont know their pregnant for a long time. It doesnt occur to them to think they are pregnant when they have their period.

She was also reasonably fit and active and didnt have any mornnig sickness so was blissfully unaware of her little son growing inside of her. This was a while ago, I think she was probably about 18 or so at the time.

Shes not a big drinker so it wasnt a huge drama but that kind of thing can happen to healthy young largish women.

 

[Mrs. Edge]

My mom not only smoked when she was pregnant, but also when breastfeeding me. Ashes would literally drop on my head!!!

 

[BAW]

My mom smoked while she was pregnant with me and my brothers and sisters but I certainly wouldn't want her thrown in jail. I think its irresponsible but not criminal.

Drinking is another story but who says how much is too much? And its pretty ridiculous to suggest that any woman in her fertile years shouldn't drink because she *might* pregnant.

 

[cell]

So if a woman smokes or drinks during pregnancy she must be actively trying to kill her child?

well, yes with the drinking. my exhusband told me that his mother had smoked while being pregnant with him and his brother, so maybe its extreme in that case, i didnt realize how common it is. which sucks.

the mother cant be that clueless to know what kind of effects drinking and smoking has on the unborn. seriously.

 

[Salome]

I think its irresponsible but not criminal.

I agree

I guess in some cases it could be considered criminal
but practically speaking I think it makes more sense to treat this as irresponsible and try to get convictions in extreme cases
otherwise you get people having to defend themselves while - when smoking/drinking happes in strict moderation - there's no proof that it will hurt the baby in any way

 

[MissMaCo]

A pregnant woman who is smoking is a terrible image for me.
I can't imagine that in 2004 people are not aware of those risks !

 

[ILuvLarryMullen]

I think that pretty much everyone is aware of the risks but some people have a hard time quitting. I don't think enacting that kind of a law would reduce the number of infants with related problems by much. What would probably happen is that some of the women who are already irresponsible enough to drink while pregnant will not go to the hospital and abandon their baby somewhere to avoid prosecution.

 

[AvsGirl41]

I agree, ILLM. This really just comes back to the kind of woman who is uneducated and irresponsible about children, period.

I have friends, co-workers, whatever who have had drinks--even gotten drunk before they knew they were pregnant. That's different.

But I've also seen my neighbor (who is mentally ill) drinking while obviously pregnant. She knew she was pregnant. She was bragging to anyone who could listen. But there she is chugging a Jack Daniels. The baby was nearly a year old before we saw it sitting up and moving around. For a year, it just laid there and never made a sound, a stark contrast to the healthy baby next door who was the same age. Her other daughter is obviously hearing impaired and mentally behind.

Now THAT is child abuse. That, coupled with the general way she cares for them, should be enough to take her children away. She should not be allowed to have more.

But while our system believes that children are always better off with "their parents." Since these children are not beaten, they're fed and clothed, they won't take them away. And even if they did, the foster system is a joke. Why bother enacting more laws? Who's going to enforce it? Who's going to provide a better life for these children...?

 

[BVS]

And even if they did, the foster system is a joke.

Hey now, I'm a product of the foster system. I'd like to think I turned out fine. My foster parents were amazing. Anyone who can take on infants like that and love them and care for them and then give them up, it's hard. I know people who are foster parents and it's not easy. Yes there are some who are complete assholes, but the system does work, it just needs to be monitored just a little more.

 

[Dreadsox]

Why is there more and more ritalin being dispensed? Why are our children being drugged more and more? Why do we look to a pill to cure them? Why oh why? I have my theories.

#1 From the time a woman is notified by her Doctor that she is pregnant it should be against the law to have alcohol or smoke.

#2 Society winds up putting more and more money into the care and education of these children (as it should) however, I am not sure if this is because of drinking during pregnancy, or because the child is born into a house where the parent is already so selfish that they put their own needs before the childs....

 

[Seabird]

My sister in law smoked like an old time factory and had 4 healthy nine pounders

 

[AvsGirl41]

Hey now, I'm a product of the foster system. I'd like to think I turned out fine. My foster parents were amazing. Anyone who can take on infants like that and love them and care for them and then give them up, it's hard. I know people who are foster parents and it's not easy. Yes there are some who are complete assholes, but the system does work, it just needs to be monitored just a little more.

That's great. I too admire anyone who can take on that role.

I just know the horror stories I've heard over and over again. I know bad news and scandal is more likely to be reported than the good, but from what I understand, the system needs more than "a little" monitoring. There needs to be some serious housecleaning and overhaul.

My intent wasn't to insult anyone in the system, by any means.

 

[HeartlandGirl]

#1 From the time a woman is notified by her Doctor that she is pregnant it should be against the law to have alcohol or smoke.

But a fair number of women never seek prenatal care. The first time they see a doctor during their pregnancy is when they're in labor.

 

[Dreadsox]

What is the number? .. I am curious.

 

[BostonAnne]

Why is there more and more ritalin being dispensed? Why are our children being drugged more and more? Why do we look to a pill to cure them? Why oh why? I have my theories.

#1 From the time a woman is notified by her Doctor that she is pregnant it should be against the law to have alcohol or smoke.

#2 Society winds up putting more and more money into the care and education of these children (as it should) however, I am not sure if this is because of drinking during pregnancy, or because the child is born into a house where the parent is already so selfish that they put their own needs before the childs....

What does ritalin have to do with this thread? Are you suggesting that parents who dispense ritalin drink and smoke and are too selfish to find other methods to deal with ADD?

 

[HeartlandGirl]

What is the number? .. I am curious.

This is something I researched in college a while back, but I surfed around the net this morning looking for some statistics for you. One government report has the percentage of women who receive delayed (after the first trimester) or no prenatal care up around 20-25%. For women receiving NO prenatal care, the percentages vary widely according to race, anywhere from 2% to 9%. There are also statistics concerning the adequacy of prenatal care for women in various states. Apparently, the goal of the government was to have 90% of women receiving early prenatal care by 2000, and that goal was not met. Even if it had been, that still leaves 10 out of every 100 women not getting early prenatal care. If you want to know more, this information is easy to find on the net and elsewhere.

 

[cell]

But a fair number of women never seek prenatal care. The first time they see a doctor during their pregnancy is when they're in labor.

i can see how this is true, but this just really makes me angry that there always has to be some kind of excuse to not make drinking and smoking during pregnancy against the law.

all in the name of protecting the mother and her freakin rights. nevermind the unborn.

 

[HeartlandGirl]

I hope you don't think I was making excuses. I was pointing out that it would be difficult to enforce a law where the ban on smoking and drinking begins with a doctor-confirmed pregnancy, seeing as how some women see their doctors after the first trimester or not at all.

 

[Liesje]

I would say YES, it is abusive. It infringes on the rights of the unborn child. FAS is absolutely terrible! After seeing kids with FAS, it's reason alone to abstain from drinking. It's such a tragic syndrome and you never really know what you're going to get. I have a friend who's mom smoked, drank heavily, did drugs, the works while she was pregnant (she was basically in denial of her pregnancy) but my friend turned out just fine and it inspired her mother to really turn her life around. But on the other hand, my mom has worked with numberous crack babies and FAS cases (my mom worked at an adoption agency and now an inner city daycare) and their mothers couldn't care less, obviously since they didn't even have enough sense to properly care for themselves.

There was actually a Law and Order episode on this very topic. The question raised was a good one: if it IS considered abusive, what do you do with the pregnant mother? Do you jail a pregnant woman? How can you possibly keep her from drinking/smoking? I'm not saying these difficulties mean that it shouldn't be law, but it does make it harder to address.

As for the argument that it's hard to know that you're pregnant right away, I say sorry, no excuse there. If you're responsible enough to have sex without sufficient protection, then you're responsible enough NOT to smoke or drink AT ALL b/c yes you might be pregnant.