Do you think Drinking during Pregnancy should be considered Child Abuse? - Page 3 - U2 Feedback

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Old 07-19-2004, 01:05 PM   #31
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Originally posted by Seabird
My sister in law smoked like an old time factory and had 4 healthy nine pounders
Sorry, I think that's just terrible and should not be encouraged. And I'd like to point out that a lot of times the newborn seems fine and the problems start later on. For example, I know someone with two much younger sisters who were adopted from central america. They both seemed fine until third grade when one just stopped learning and couldn't move ahead in school. Her problems are now blamed on FAS.
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Old 07-19-2004, 01:30 PM   #32
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Originally posted by LivLuvAndBootlegMusic

As for the argument that it's hard to know that you're pregnant right away, I say sorry, no excuse there. If you're responsible enough to have sex without sufficient protection, then you're responsible enough NOT to smoke or drink AT ALL b/c yes you might be pregnant.
What if it's a surprise pregnancy? I know married couples who weren't planning on getting pregnant at that paticular time were using protection and were suprised, so she ended up drinking a few times during the first week or so. You can't blame this person.

I don't condone the use of alcohol, smoking or anything else that may cause harm to the child, poor diet, living conditions, etc. But it's impossible to enforce such a law! This isn't an excuse to give mother's the right to do what they want, it's just there is absolutely no way to enforce such a law.
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Old 07-19-2004, 01:34 PM   #33
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Originally posted by HeartlandGirl
I hope you don't think I was making excuses. I was pointing out that it would be difficult to enforce a law where the ban on smoking and drinking begins with a doctor-confirmed pregnancy, seeing as how some women see their doctors after the first trimester or not at all.

i understand.
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Old 07-19-2004, 04:10 PM   #34
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


What if it's a surprise pregnancy? I know married couples who weren't planning on getting pregnant at that paticular time were using protection and were suprised, so she ended up drinking a few times during the first week or so. You can't blame this person.

I don't condone the use of alcohol, smoking or anything else that may cause harm to the child, poor diet, living conditions, etc. But it's impossible to enforce such a law! This isn't an excuse to give mother's the right to do what they want, it's just there is absolutely no way to enforce such a law.
I see your point, but I think that if both the man and woman are using some form or protection (I firmly believe that valid "protection" = BOTH parties doing their part), the chance of the woman getting pregnant is VERY VERY VERY slim. Laws/standards should not be made based on the rare loophole cases, but on basic morals. Smoking and drinking while pregnant is wrong. Unfortunately, you're right - there is no forseeable way to enforce such a law using the same standards every time.
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Old 07-19-2004, 05:22 PM   #35
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I think that many women may have smoked or drank before they knew they were pregnant and in those cases I couldn't say that they were doing any harm, they didn't know. It is unreasonable to say that all women should not drink after having sex if they might be pregnant because most women, even if they are using protection, might be pregnant.

I hate to see a woman smoking or drinking while they are pregnant but it's not my place to give them a lecture, I have listened to many people who smoke say how difficult it is to give up, I don't smoke so I don't know how hard it is for a pregnant woman to just give up something she is addicted to. Maybe it is more difficult for some people to give up something like alcohol or smoking than others.

I've watched programmes about women giving birth to sick babies because they have been taking drugs/drinking throughout their pregnancy. In these cases I really feel that something should be done. Imo I think people should be giving her help rather than condemning her or putting her in jail.

It's very easy for people to say that there should be a law against this, it's easy to criticise this behaviour but we don't know what it's like to be addicted to something while being pregnant. (I'm not saying it's right or acceptable to smoke or drink if you know you're pregnant) Even if there was a law against it, it's not going to stop people drinking and smoking in their homes.
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Old 07-19-2004, 05:49 PM   #36
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Originally posted by Lara Mullen

It's very easy for people to say that there should be a law against this, it's easy to criticise this behaviour but we don't know what it's like to be addicted to something while being pregnant.
So we should back off pedos and serial rapists b/c we don't know what it's like to be addicted to sex?....
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Old 07-19-2004, 05:59 PM   #37
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Originally posted by LivLuvAndBootlegMusic


So we should back off pedos and serial rapists b/c we don't know what it's like to be addicted to sex?....
No. That's an entirely different subject. I was commenting on the subject of this thread.
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Old 07-19-2004, 06:22 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by LivLuvAndBootlegMusic


I see your point, but I think that if both the man and woman are using some form or protection (I firmly believe that valid "protection" = BOTH parties doing their part), the chance of the woman getting pregnant is VERY VERY VERY slim. Laws/standards should not be made based on the rare loophole cases, but on basic morals.
But that's the whole point of this debate. You call it a loophole, but I call it a flaw in making such a law. If this were to be made into law, technically speaking innocent people will be penalized. I don't think you dismiss the rare cases when trying to decide something like this.

It's just an impossible law to try and write up or enforce because how long are you pregnant before you know? How long are you pregnant before you show, there could be a woman having a drink right now in front of you and you wouldn't know if she's pregnant or not. Where do you draw the lines at such gray areas? You can't. Unfortunately it's going to have to be up to the mothers and families surrounding these mothers.
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Old 07-19-2004, 08:10 PM   #39
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Hence my statement, once a physician has notified you.
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Old 07-19-2004, 08:24 PM   #40
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I am in full agreement with Dread.

Also, it is not about using protection that makes your chances of becoming pregnant VERY VERY VERY slim, it is using protection correctly. Technically (ie. scientifically) the pill is essentially 100% effective, the issue is in using it correctly, and bare human error accounts for the 3% failure rate. This is essentially best case scenario. Clearly, it is less than 97% effective when all guidelines are not followed.
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Old 07-20-2004, 01:58 AM   #41
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I still have no idea at all how we are supposed to impose this as a law
breach doctor - patient confidentiality (if a physician is involved)
telephone snatch lines so that you can turn in mothers to be who you expect drink a glass of wine every other week?
have police raid pubs and restaurant, line up all the women who are having an alcoholic drink and make them take a pregnancy test on the spot?

lawyers would have field days because I don't even think there is a definitite point where your consumption of alcohol/tobacco does become threatening to the babies health

so perhaps we're only talking about extreme cases here
but I agree with Lara Mullen that in these extreme cases it would be more helpful to try and help these people instead of adding to their problems
unless the mother is a person who usually doesn't smoke or drink but decided to take up some bad habits to hurt the child
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