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Old 06-27-2007, 09:57 AM   #46
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Originally posted by U2DMfan
To many, this means nothing. These people lack the perspective that would go on to allow them to love the place they live with the (false sense of) security that their state/country has provided that they would not lose this liberty. Otherwise, they forfeit it. (You can give me Utopia, but can you assure me that it won't easily crumble?) In this respect, I think the U.S. is still admirable and maybe even capable of being loved by an idealist who doesn't comprehend much outside of their own borders. I'm not sure the U.S is the best country in the world to live, it's up to debate for sure, what's not up to debate is the security of the state. That does mean something. For that, we can love our security, even if our liberties are in flux. And we can look outside our borders and wonder if we would be better off and a sense of loyalty would tell us 'no' but we might be wrong. Security makes me love the sacrfice of others, it doesn't make me accept the reality of the state of things. I love America as far as I and like-minded individuals can try and make it.




very interesting.

hope you had a fun night.
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Old 06-28-2007, 07:05 PM   #47
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Am very proud to hail from Scotland. I dont consider myself British. I am from Scotland, which is a country, therfore I am Scottish.
For a wee country, we have contributed a lot to the world and we should be proud of that.
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Old 06-28-2007, 08:22 PM   #48
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Wow, what an interesting discussion.

I think the comparisons to WWII from both Americans and Germans here is very interesting.

We cite examples of folks dying on the beaches of normandy as a great love for country, and today, if someone flys a flag in germany, the might be considered a "nazi".

Fascinating.
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Old 06-28-2007, 08:27 PM   #49
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Re: do you love your country?

Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
and i don't mean like, or enjoy, or feel lucky to be a citizen. i mean do you love your country, in a manner similar to the way you might love another person, ie, be willing to die for it.

does your country love you?
No and no.
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Old 06-28-2007, 08:59 PM   #50
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Originally posted by blueeyedgirl


The only time I felt any kind of patriotism was when Australia qualified for the World Cup
That was the only time I felt patriotic about Aussie as well.

Mind you, the Socceroos epitomise something more than just a national sporting team. They are Australia's representatives in the only sport that really matters, and after decades of copping such nasty treatment by the anti-soccer sentiment popularised by the mainstream media (sheilas, wogs and poofters), it felt like a genuine triumph of an underdog, a genuine triumph in the face of adversity, a sporting revolution, a two-fingered salute to the bore that is the all white, pro-AFL, pro-rugby, pro-cricket status quo.

Australia's all fine and dandy. We've got some nice little geographical sweetspots in WA and QLD and some interesting weather, but our history bores me. Doesn't seem like there is a lot to celebrate. The US have their revolution, but we don't have anything like that. Eureka Stockade is cool and all, but hardly compares. We have a crappy flag and anthem as well.

I suppose one thing I really like about Aussies is that unlike Americans and Middle Easterners, we don't get all hung up about religion. Heaps of folk don't consider themselves religious, or consider themselves agnostic, or just don't give a damn, which I think is a beautiful thing.

Another great thing is probably the beaches and some of the country towns like Ballarat and Wonthaggi and Yea.

Ultimately, Victoria and Melbourne means more to me than Australia....and although I'm pretty pacifistic, I can see myself defending Victorian values, whatever they might be.
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Old 06-28-2007, 11:23 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally posted by intedomine

Ultimately, Victoria and Melbourne means more to me than Australia....and although I'm pretty pacifistic, I can see myself defending Victorian values, whatever they might be.

The differences in 'state based patriotism' around Australia are pretty funny. In Victoria and South Australia it is very, very strong. In Queensland not as much, outside of sport. In Western Australia wherever it surfaces it's pretty much due to isolation and thus an independent feeling of pride, at, well, being great all on their own. But then NSW doesn't really give a f*ck at all. I've never heard anyone ever, ever make a point of someone being from NSW like you hear all the time from Victorians and South Australians ("He's a great Victorian/South Australian"), and nothing is ever, ever advertised in a NSW-centric way, again, something you see all the time in other states. I guess it's perhaps a need to forge a unique identity seeing as so much of Australias is Sydney-centric (power, icons, events etc), and in reverse, perhaps that's why we in NSW feel no need to do so?
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Old 06-29-2007, 02:32 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally posted by Earnie Shavers



The differences in 'state based patriotism' around Australia are pretty funny. In Victoria and South Australia it is very, very strong. In Queensland not as much, outside of sport. In Western Australia wherever it surfaces it's pretty much due to isolation and thus an independent feeling of pride, at, well, being great all on their own. But then NSW doesn't really give a f*ck at all. I've never heard anyone ever, ever make a point of someone being from NSW like you hear all the time from Victorians and South Australians ("He's a great Victorian/South Australian"), and nothing is ever, ever advertised in a NSW-centric way, again, something you see all the time in other states. I guess it's perhaps a need to forge a unique identity seeing as so much of Australias is Sydney-centric (power, icons, events etc), and in reverse, perhaps that's why we in NSW feel no need to do so?
Fair call. I do think that when a lot of foreign folk think of Australia they immediately think Sydney because you are a bigger city and had more recent major events or whatever. Also when you've got the all-Australia news bulletins, they are overwhelmingly (nauseatingly so, i might add) sydney-centric.

Perhaps indeed, it is because ideas of or about Australia might be so Sydney-centric, is why y'all don't get all passionate about NSW and why we so get all patriotic about the Big V.

Aye, but maybe there's another reason. Maybe you've just got bugger all to be proud about
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Old 06-29-2007, 04:36 AM   #53
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I don't follow sport and have a strong antipathy towards the subsidising of sports and sporting events by every damn level of government, I don't like having two parties which are each anti-freedom, I don't like it that public funds go towards religious schools, I can't stand that free speech is curtailed in the name of anti-terrorism or promoting diversity, I don't like having the government rake in huge amounts of cash from a mining boom only to dish it out at election time as tax cuts as if the peoples own money is a gift, I don't like having video games and movies banned because of violence, I don't like having politicians pushing for ISP level porn filters to protect the children, I don't like being having a country on the tail end of everything from TV, movies and concerts, I drink spirits and not beer and I doubt that I will be here for more than a few years.

I like that we have some of the oldest rocks on the planet, that we lay claim to definining the Ediacaran period and that we have a shitload of economic minerals. I don't mind being able to go to the middle of nowhere.

I wasn't born here and I bloody well won't die here; on the plus side individual sovereignty and having an advanteous accent could be useful for a perpetual traveller.
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Old 06-29-2007, 04:56 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
I don't follow sport and have a strong antipathy towards the subsidising of sports and sporting events by every damn level of government, I don't like having two parties which are each anti-freedom, I don't like it that public funds go towards religious schools, I can't stand that free speech is curtailed in the name of anti-terrorism or promoting diversity, I don't like having the government rake in huge amounts of cash from a mining boom only to dish it out at election time as tax cuts as if the peoples own money is a gift, I don't like having video games and movies banned because of violence, I don't like having politicians pushing for ISP level porn filters to protect the children, I don't like being having a country on the tail end of everything from TV, movies and concerts, I drink spirits and not beer and I doubt that I will be here for more than a few years.

I like that we have some of the oldest rocks on the planet, that we lay claim to definining the Ediacaran period and that we have a shitload of economic minerals. I don't mind being able to go to the middle of nowhere.

I wasn't born here and I bloody well won't die here; on the plus side individual sovereignty and having an advanteous accent could be useful.
yeah, yeah, yeah, but does your country love you?
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Old 06-29-2007, 05:01 AM   #55
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A country can't love it's citizens, but I think that Australia is a democracy and most people are supportive of the safety net that the government provides them and thats fine. A healthy society demands opposing interests, when one government goes to far (IR laws for instance) it will suffer. It's just a shame that there isn't the same level of appreciation for things like free speech and that they can get stripped away without to much trouble.

I like the country perfectly well, it's mainly the state I have a problem with, I don't think that there is anywhere that doesn't have that same issue.

I'm also adding Pauline Hanson (that shit won't flush), the Marriage Act (no gay marriage and no debate) and 10 minutes of AFL in the news to the list.
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Old 06-29-2007, 09:44 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
I wasn't born here and I bloody well won't die here; on the plus side individual sovereignty and having an advanteous accent could be useful for a perpetual traveller.


where will you go?
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Old 06-29-2007, 06:13 PM   #57
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Wherever piques my interest and the moneys right, actually that should be and/or.
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Old 06-29-2007, 07:06 PM   #58
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I try to love my country but my country fails me and its people.

I dont like the United Kingdom.
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Old 06-29-2007, 07:30 PM   #59
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I love the beauty of my country, but not its politics. (USA)
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Old 06-30-2007, 07:28 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally posted by MadelynIris
Wow, what an interesting discussion.

I think the comparisons to WWII from both Americans and Germans here is very interesting.

We cite examples of folks dying on the beaches of normandy as a great love for country, and today, if someone flys a flag in germany, the might be considered a "nazi".

Fascinating.
IF you fly the english flag your deamed a racist.
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