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View Poll Results: God?
I believe in A God, just not sure how it all works... 17 19.10%
I believe in a specific God 51 57.30%
I believe in many Gods 1 1.12%
I believe God is inside us 2 2.25%
I don't believe in any God 13 14.61%
Other 5 5.62%
Voters: 89. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
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Old 07-09-2002, 01:22 PM   #76
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I'm afraid I'm not following you.
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Old 07-09-2002, 01:37 PM   #77
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I said "You could assume that each person lives in there own "universe" and what ever..."
you started arguing that statement. You indeed were arguing against nobody because I don't believe that. I do know some people who believe that though. They have got to be the most open minded people I've ever met.
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Old 07-09-2002, 01:56 PM   #78
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Originally posted by oliveu2cm


But if there is no God why would anyone have to be moral? because the law says so? But what if you can be immoral (kill, steal..) and get away with it? Does the act become okay?

This reasoning to me still sounds like cultural relativism. Even within Western Civilization there are immoral beliefs held and practiced by people- racism being one of them. And how do we tell people who are not of Western Civiliation to apply to our morality? We have no right to- unless God tells us there are specific rights and wrongs and that everyone should adhere to them.

No, i meant law is the additional protection against immoral deals (with the morals), and a powerful tool to help prevent (or repair at the least) various injustices. It also stops people from "taking justice in their own hands" (ok, most of them).

Of course, there will always be people going against morality - but that doesn't mean that others (and humans in general) shouldn't strive for goodness, moral life.

As for telling people out of Western Civilization to apply to our morality - do we have a right to tell others how to live their lives? Do we have a right to claim that our Civilization and our morals are right because we use them? Other people could use the same argument against us.
I don't know ... i guess i'd take a lot of education to prevent for example the way women are treated in certain areas of the world. How do you break the tradition that has been going on for hundreds of years?

Why am i moral? Because it's the only way i've been taught to be by my parents, because i'd be scared of the consequences of not being moral, because i really don't want to mess with any authority (police for one), but mostly because it feels right and because i'd let myself down if i wasn't. Because i choose to be.
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Old 07-09-2002, 02:07 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally posted by RavenStar
I said "You could assume that each person lives in there own "universe" and what ever..."
you started arguing that statement. You indeed were arguing against nobody because I don't believe that. I do know some people who believe that though. They have got to be the most open minded people I've ever met.
It seemed to me you were implicitly supporting the theory as a LEGITIMATE alternative (whether you believe it or not) when you said it seems as likely as theism - or, as you put it, the belief that "some dude is sitting up there in the clouds planing our lives for us and making us bow down before him."

Either way, I think those the idea believe the idea are probably too open-minded. It's akin to reducing morality from the universal to the personal; do that, such that morality can mean everything, and it ceases to mean anything.
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Old 07-09-2002, 02:08 PM   #80
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And you are saying that if people feel they need a crutch even if they don't really, then you won't be the one to tell them they can't have it
OK, this puzzles me. I got everyting from your post except this sentence which seems a bit complicated. What are you trying to say?

As for the rest of the post: it wasn't my intention (nor am i about to start) insulting anyone who is religious - and i don't consider followers of Christianity (or any other religion) weak people. I just explained my view of religion and God - if it works for you, that's ok. I just don't share your beliefs.
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Old 07-09-2002, 02:20 PM   #81
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Achtung Bubba, I agree with you partially on that. (that makes like what, 1.5 times we have actually agreed on anything? )
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Old 07-09-2002, 02:45 PM   #82
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Yep.
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Old 07-09-2002, 04:05 PM   #83
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This is starting to scare me.
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Old 07-10-2002, 09:03 AM   #84
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No, i meant law is the additional protection against immoral deals (with the morals), and a powerful tool to help prevent (or repair at the least) various injustices. It also stops people from "taking justice in their own hands" (ok, most of them).

Of course, there will always be people going against morality - but that doesn't mean that others (and humans in general) shouldn't strive for goodness, moral life.
But why? Why should we strive for goodness if there is no higher reason?

With no higher reason to be good then I would look out only for myself. This includes coveting all my money, not waste my time helping others, and do everything and anything I can to get ahead in the world. This is an individualistic society we live in- if there is no God then the only person we have to look out for is ourself, and good luck to anyone who gets in our way.

If being moral kept me happy then I would be being moral for purely selfish reasons. If being immoral kept me happy I would also be acting for selfish reasons. Without God, you act only in your own selfish interests.

Quote:

As for telling people out of Western Civilization to apply to our morality - do we have a right to tell others how to live their lives? Do we have a right to claim that our Civilization and our morals are right because we use them? Other people could use the same argument against us.
I am not claiming our civilization is right just because I choose them or this is where I live. I claim the laws of God are right and are what needs to be followed. Why I believe that could constitute another thread (there are a few out there right now discussing this.)

Quote:

I don't know ... i guess i'd take a lot of education to prevent for example the way women are treated in certain areas of the world. How do you break the tradition that has been going on for hundreds of years?
You break it by empowering these women. You break it from the inside, not the outside, which is why organizations like RAWA work with the women who are living this tragedy. You break it with prayer. It is not an easy road for sure, but just because things look difficult does not mean they should not be attempted to conquer. We have Bono and his work in debt relief and the aids crisis to look at as a role model.


Quote:
Because i choose to be.
And if there is no God then there is nothing wrong with chosing Not to be moral. Why do I have to follow the state imposed laws? If I thought there was nothing wrong with stealing, and I was able to do it without getting caught, then there is nothing wrong with that. So without a God people can choose to be immoral and there would be no reason not to be.
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