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Old 02-23-2005, 08:49 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
the potential is in all societies, especially those who have little else but their religion (and extreme interpretations of it) and a strong sense of being humiliated. the US is a rather successful society, and even our very poor are better off than the poor in other countries, and while Americans might feel a sense of humiliation on a day-to-day level -- and this often manifests itself when some dude shoots up a post office -- we don't yet have the sense of monolithic cultural embarassment/humiliation that countries that tend to produce suicidal terrorists have.

but, yes, it is there, and yes, it can be tapped into should circumstance and charismatic leaders emerge, and yes, it could be fanatical suicidal Christians just as much as it can be fanatical suicidal Muslims.

no religion is immune from this sickness that has infected a tiny minority of Islam.
Overall, your explanation makes sense to me. There are some within this country who I wish would stop trying to sell God - like some of these televangelists. Today's televangelists remind me of Lutheran times - where religious leaders sold indulgences to hit the jackpot. I don't know about the last part, when you stated that suicidal Christians would equal the wreckage of suicidal Muslims. I've always seen fanatical Islam to be a "repent to Allah or die" crusade. Although I couldn't argue that in the past, many have perverted the Christian message as well to the point of blood and guts.
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Old 02-23-2005, 08:51 AM   #32
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Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
I've always seen fanatical Islam to be a "repent to Allah or die" crusade. Although I couldn't argue that in the past, many have perverted the Christian message as well to the point of blood and guts.

and the same wrong people could just as easily sell a "repent to Christ or die" crusade.

the problem is religion, the thought system. it offers absolutes, truths, and certanties in a murky world of beautiful grey. hence it's appeal, and hence it's danger.
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Old 02-23-2005, 08:56 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
and the same wrong people could just as easily sell a "repent to Christ or die" crusade.

the problem is religion, the thought system. it offers absolutes, truths, and certanties in a murky world of beautiful grey. hence it's appeal, and hence it's danger.
For sure, much of this world is dark and grey. I think the purpose of faith is to blacken and whiten your vision of right and wrong. Unfortunately, some have made faith a grey area in itself, and many cannot tell whether God will help them in life, or the ideology will brainwash them into the types of nuts they have seen on this planet.
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Old 02-23-2005, 09:21 AM   #34
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I believe in god but i don`t believe in imposing his will by law to people who are not believing. I hate dictatorship of the religion.
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Old 02-23-2005, 09:37 AM   #35
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Yes, and His name is Jesus Christ
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Old 02-23-2005, 09:48 AM   #36
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Re: Re: Re: Do you believe in a God ?

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Originally posted by unosdostres14


God is a Christian?

I don't understand this. As I understand it, the main teachings of Jesus were about love. Loving your fellow man, etc. So if a person is loving of all people, are they a Christian?
I said I believe in the Christian God. What does that have to do w/ who I love? I don't believe in a Muslim god or a Hindu god and I don't believe in a god that's just a supreme being out there in space...that doesn't mean I dislike or hate those people....The thread is about gods, not who we love, but whatever, judge away...
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Old 02-23-2005, 09:49 AM   #37
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How can one not believe in God?
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Old 02-23-2005, 09:51 AM   #38
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Old 02-23-2005, 10:05 AM   #39
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Of course.

I dislike people who politicize God or who use Him as their personal lawyer. That really gets under my skin.
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Old 02-23-2005, 10:46 AM   #40
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Nope
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Old 02-23-2005, 11:16 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by coemgen
How can one not believe in God?

i used to think this, and i still want to. i know it's kind of a cheesy movie, but i find the Matthew McConahey (however you spell it) character in "Contact" kind of inspiring. i used to have arguments with much more atheistic friends -- i would argue that feelings of joy, of sadness, of love, or the rapturous appreciation of a sunset, the ocean, how mountains make beauty out of distance, or when i hear unspeakably gorgeous music like "fake plastic trees" or the segue into "streets" or the almost mystical connection one can craete while in the sweaty heat of sex were evidence of God.

i don't anymore.

i think they're evidence of the heights to which humanity can achieve when we allow ourselves to access the potential within all of us. you could call that God. or you could call it something else. at the end of the day, we don't know what it is, and instead of labeling it, i'd rather let it wash over me and enjoy it and appreciate it rather than store it away as proof of something.

and i am also reminded by the fact that, for all these wonderful things, we have war, genocide, tsunamis, earthquakes, tornadoes, and a tractor trailer who changes lanes and swerves a bit too much into another lane causing the mother in the minivan with kids to break and swerve and skid on the slick pavement and send the car head-over-heels into the divider and killing her.

if there is a god, if there is a love and logic to everything that happens, i reject such a love and logic that is expressed by notions of "when bad things happen, we should love god more." garbage, i say. to me, any God who would willingly torture his children, so to speak, through unspeakable natural disasters, horrible accidents, or whatever, especially if this is some sort of perverted test of faith, is abhorrent. would any parent kill a child's pet to teach him about death? should you believe your parent even when you know, in your heart, that s/he is utterly wrong? i cannot imagine God would want us to surrender our powers of rationality and free will and free thought whenever he asks us to accept the unacceptable.

for every high, there is a low; for all the beauty, there is ugliness. we cannot have one without the other, and to me, this balances out into an amoral world. there's nothing in that sunset but what you put there. there's nothing in the opening organ of "streets" but what i put in there. while we are not masters of our own destiny (that's left up to chance and chaos), we are masters of the meaning we reap from the world we're in.

i see no proof of God. i see no proof for the absence of God.

but i do think i understand, better, what i used to interpret as proof of God, and while the world is colder, harsher, and i live in fear of how life changes on a dime when that tractor trailer swerves on 95 South on a rainy Tuesday morning, i am more acutely alive, aware, and appreciative of what little time i have. abandoning my notions of God has made the highs higher, and the lows lower. all i have i have created with my own bare hands. but they remain mine and mine only as i -- the royal "i," we all do this -- forge meaning from chaos.

and then we die.
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Old 02-23-2005, 03:28 PM   #42
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I don't know whether there is a god or not. I don't believe that it has revealed itself to man if it does exist, and therefore I don't believe any sort of organized religion.
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Old 02-23-2005, 04:05 PM   #43
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Religion can be bad ~ state enforced atheism is worse.
A very powerful statement...
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Old 02-23-2005, 04:10 PM   #44
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no

Irvine (once again) sums up my thoughts with more clarity and poignancy than i could muster.

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