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Old 09-11-2007, 08:37 AM   #16
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from my experience, conservatives see clarity as a goal, whereas liberals see complexity as a goal.
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Old 09-11-2007, 09:17 AM   #17
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Originally posted by 2861U2
My dad votes Republican, but I'm not sure if he really feels that way or if my mom tells him to.
I thought all the bossy controlling women were on the Democrats side(at least that's how the conservatives have painted it).
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Old 09-11-2007, 11:23 AM   #18
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Originally posted by Irvine511
from my experience, conservatives see clarity as a goal, whereas liberals see complexity as a goal.
Much nicer than I put it and likely more accurate.
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Old 09-11-2007, 12:04 PM   #19
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It's confusing and a bit of a paradox. I'm a Euro/Canadian citizen and very liberal when it comes to social issues. But I'm conservative when it comes to fiscal issues and the military.
So that would be centre-left, centre-right or Even Steven! I don't know where that would fit into in the US.
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Old 09-11-2007, 12:28 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by Slipstream
It's confusing and a bit of a paradox. I'm a Euro/Canadian citizen and very liberal when it comes to social issues. But I'm conservative when it comes to fiscal issues and the military.
So that would be centre-left, centre-right or Even Steven! I don't know where that would fit into in the US.
I'm the same. I'm registered as a Democrat but I vote 3rd party. neither party has put a candidate up worthy of my vote since Clinton. I'll probably re-register as an Independent. Maybe Green. There are no significant third parties here, and that's pretty sad in a country of 300+ million.
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Old 09-12-2007, 10:55 PM   #21
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When I see what passes for conservative thought nowadays, really, I just weep, sometimes almost literally, and when I see right wing Republican opinion being equated with conservative opinion on FYM on a regular basis I don't usually bother objecting.

It isn't liberalism or the left that has conservatism in its parlous state, it is conservatives (or, more accurately, those trading under the banner of conservatism) themselves.

Conservatism IS in a parlous state, and the damage Buschco and the neo-cons have done to the conservatism in the space of less than a decade is really quite incredible, it's almost on a par with the damage Marxism did to liberalism.

I would say it will take at least two generations to solve this.

Nevertheless, at my core, I would probably still define myself as a conservative. I don't really have a very good way of explaining this other than to say that conservatism, to me, represents three big ideas:-

(1) A belief in the freedom of the private citizen from unjust encroachment by the state

(2) A belief that societal change should be gradually and carefully implemented

(3) A belief in the rule of law, tempered always with mercy
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Old 09-12-2007, 11:00 PM   #22
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Originally posted by financeguy
Conservatism IS in a parlous state, and the damage Buschco and the neo-cons have done to the conservatism in the space of less than a decade is really quite incredible,

Surely a sign of the end times, but I agree with you.
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Old 09-12-2007, 11:04 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by financeguy


(2) A belief that societal change should be gradually and carefully implemented

Well I have to say I agree with most of your post except maybe the Marxist part...

But the above is usually where you and I disagree. I think most social changes have occured far too slowly, and I can't think of one where conservatives were on the correct side of history.
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Old 09-13-2007, 10:10 AM   #24
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My dad is a hard core Republican (even though he was orginally a Democrate), mom is a Democrate (even though she was orginally a Republican). I'm a Republican but I have Liberal views. I've been thinking about switching over to being a Democrate. My dad and sister think this is not right.
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Old 09-13-2007, 10:25 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by financeguy
Nevertheless, at my core, I would probably still define myself as a conservative. I don't really have a very good way of explaining this other than to say that conservatism, to me, represents three big ideas:-

(1) A belief in the freedom of the private citizen from unjust encroachment by the state

(2) A belief that societal change should be gradually and carefully implemented

(3) A belief in the rule of law, tempered always with mercy


you sound like a classical liberal.
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Old 09-14-2007, 06:29 PM   #26
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Slate.com debunks the study...

http://www.slate.com/id/2173965/
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Old 09-14-2007, 06:32 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
from my experience, conservatives see clarity as a goal, whereas liberals see complexity as a goal.
Occam's Razor:

"All things being equal, the simplest solution tends to be the right one."
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Old 09-14-2007, 07:26 PM   #28
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"All things being equal...." is a necessary component.
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Old 09-15-2007, 12:40 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
from my experience, conservatives see clarity as a goal, whereas liberals see complexity as a goal.
Just curious - why would complexity be a goal? I can understand it being a "state of things" - but not an actual goal.
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Old 09-15-2007, 12:41 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonosSaint
"All things being equal...." is a necessary component.
No...the RIGHT one is the necessary component.
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