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Old 12-15-2004, 09:55 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


I'm sorry and wish you the best.
Thanks BonoVoxSupastar. It's been over a year now, though the paperwork is still in progress. Time works wonders as I feel much better now than I did.
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Old 12-15-2004, 10:00 AM   #32
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Originally posted by paxetaurora
I would continue to get counseling, too, if I were you--maybe even consult a member of the clergy you trust to get some professional feedback. You may still need some time to heal from this.

Thanks. And thank you all for your kind words. I really didn't mean for this to be a "look at poor me and what I'm going through thread". I was really interested in the discussion in context with what the Bible says about divorce because I had a person bring that up to me believe it or not. Recently a "friend" of the family when finding out I was divorced said "people are getting divorced to quickly these days and now so many of them will live a life of adultery". I asked exactly what she meant(knowing it was this piece of scripture but just wanted to make sure), and she quoted me the piece of scripture. My jaw hit the floor.

Personally I'm good now, it's actually been almost a year(sorry if this wasn't clear), and I've started to move on. Thank you everyone for your thoughts.
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Old 12-15-2004, 10:03 AM   #33
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Originally posted by BostonAnne


Thanks BonoVoxSupastar. It's been over a year now, though the paperwork is still in progress. Time works wonders as I feel much better now than I did.
Yeah we had no kids, no house under our names, and all material items we split ourselves and still the paperwork took forever.
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Old 12-15-2004, 10:21 AM   #34
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If a person gets married, divorces, and gets married again, it's not completely clear to me why the second marriage should be considered a mistake instead of the first one.
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Old 12-15-2004, 10:28 AM   #35
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I think it's only a mistake if you repeat the same pattern/choices/mistakes of the previous marriage. Also depends upon the reasons for marrying a second time, and if you learned from the first marriage. Of course you can only predict and count on so much, people being human and all.

That's just my 2 cents based upon my observations of people-what do I know anyway?
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Old 12-15-2004, 10:47 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar




This is more of a philosophical question. In this day and age I have still found that divorce has a stigma. The bible says "But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery (Matthew 5:32)."

"I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery (Matthew 19:9)."

Technically we divorced each other.
Hiya BVS,

Wow I haven't pondered this in ages. Which is ironic, with my being someone who got married over 11 years ago at the age of 21 and having wanted to throw in the towel on more than one occassion.

I think the verse which comes before this is interesting :

Matthew 19:8 "Jesus replied, 'Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning.' "

It seems almost, because people were essentially falling out love with their wives it was ok to send them packing then Jesus said, no that is not how it should be.

But to address your question, I honestly have no idea of how to answer it. I am sorry though, to hear of your situation. It is good you are moving on but the circumstances which brought it about are saddening. I would definitely agree with those who have advised you seek counsel on this matter. I for one am a layperson with very little knowledge of all things Biblical. I just aspire to learn more daily...

Hang in there BVS...

Carrie
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Old 12-15-2004, 01:44 PM   #37
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Re: Divorce

Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
I'm only 30, someday I want to remarry. Now because this wasn't because of infedility will I be an adulterer the rest of my life if I remarry?
Personally, I think Jesus spoke out against those who were cold-hearted, like the Pharisees, who divorced their wives for the stupidest reasons. My parents were both divorced from different spouses before they married, and I don't believe my own existence has no meaning. I don't think anyone wants to believe that. I believe Jesus had strong points over what marriage was supposed to be - one flesh, not to be taken for granted. I don't think it can be stressed to any human being how important the bond should be. You may want to do the Dreadsox thing and find different texts. I don't think it's adultery unless you were the one who left her for "independence."

This link uses the term "immorality" instead of "maritial unfaithfulness." http://www.pbcc.org/sermons/vanderet/1090.html.

And some Pharisees came to Him, testing Him, and saying, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any cause at all?" And He answered and said, "Have you not read, that He who created them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, ' For this cause a man shall leave his father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife; and the two shall become one flesh'? Consequently they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate." They *said to Him, "Why then did Moses command to give her a certificate of divorce and send her away?" He said to them, "Because of your hardness of heart, Moses permitted you to divorce your wives; but from the beginning it has not been this way. And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery." (Matt 19:3-9)

I don't see anything wrong with it if you're not the one who was in charge of that decision.
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Old 12-15-2004, 05:50 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Yeah maybe it's a strange description, but it's better than us hating each other and one person trying to take more than they deserve or sprading hateful things about each other.
Sorry, I'm not sure I was so clear, it is definitely better than having so much negativity and out-and-out fighting, for sure.
Obviously I can't speak for anyone as everyone's story is unique, but it seems regardless of the circumstances there is always a specific element of pain and hurt and doubt and guilt and...

They're just not easy things. Ever, I fear.


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Old 12-15-2004, 05:52 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by speedracer
If a person gets married, divorces, and gets married again, it's not completely clear to me why the second marriage should be considered a mistake instead of the first one.
Complete wisdom in one sentence!

This is very true I reckon.
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Old 12-15-2004, 05:53 PM   #40
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Re: Re: Divorce

Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
You may want to do the Dreadsox thing and find different texts.
My goodness....I have a thing named after me.....

Truly I have arrived.
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Old 12-16-2004, 08:13 AM   #41
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Originally posted by knox
You all might want to go talk to ministers instead of web forum members...
What if we're both? (Uh oh, my secret's out!)

I apologize if I rehash a lot of stuff, but I haven't had time to read all three pages yet.

Quote:
I would love to know the complete context of the biblical quote that Jesus made. What was the time like? Were people jumping from one person to another for frivolous reasons?
You hit the nail on the Dread, er, head. Two schools of thought ran the Jewish teachings of the day, and they had vastly different views on divorce. For the Shammai group, sexual offense was the only reason for divorce. For the Hillel group, divorce could happen for almost any reason (examples: she burns your dinner, you find a better looking woman, etc). Since the culture led men to hold the power in divorce, you can guess which philosophy was more popular at the time.

The Pharisees who are asking Jesus this question about divorce in Matthew 19 & Mark 10 are doing so to trap him. They know that the people are strictly divided on this issue, and thus no matter how he answers, he's going to become unpopular. This context must be understood when Jesus says, " . . . and marries another woman commits adultery."

Personally, I think Jesus says this to counteract the prevalence of divorce in the day (the Hillel philosophy), and is using it as a metaphor. His statement is better explained, "divorce is like adultery." His reasoning 1.) Divorce destroys the strongholds of marriage that God intended. 2.) Women who were divorced in that day were often treated like an adulteress, experiencing privation and rejection.

That said, divorce is not what God desires, but in my opinion, it is not a sin (adultery). The reason for Jesus "adultery" statement is to protect women, who were being abused by their husbands' availability of divorce. He was not creating a theological mandate for divorce, but rather trying to make a powerful point.
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Old 12-16-2004, 09:20 AM   #42
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As coldhearted as the Pharisees were, Jesus needed to define what perfection was. They divorced their wives for the stupidest reasons, only because they thought it was lawful. God's intentions for marriage are for two to become one flesh. Looking at our modern society, there is more power and say for the female, and I think the rule applies to them as well. A divorce for "independence" doesn't sound very moral to me, it doesn't sound like she wanted any commitment. Marriage is a huge responsibility for man and wife, being that they both seem to have equal say in modern times. I think you were the victim in this case, if you wanted to keep it going, but she wanted out.
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Old 12-16-2004, 10:36 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by stammer476

He was not creating a theological mandate for divorce, but rather trying to make a powerful point.
How often has this happened?

See...in the context you present it means a whole lot more to me.

How many other passages have we taken to mean something different from the TRUTH?

Frustrating.
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Old 12-16-2004, 10:45 AM   #44
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Originally posted by Dreadsox
How often has this happened?
With the words of Jesus, many times. The unfortunate mistake with the gospels is that we often take literally what was meant to be taken figuratively, and figuratively what was meant to be taken literally.

In all, it boils down to context, cultural understanding, parallel passages, and author's intended meaning. Specifically for Jesus, it's important to ask WHY he is saying these things. Is he working his way out of a trap? Is he answering a question? Is he teaching without being prodded? Who is this statement directed to? Who is his audience?

As always, context is KING.

Quote:
See...in the context you present it means a whole lot more to me.

How many other passages have we taken to mean something different from the TRUTH?
I'm a little unsure of these statements. Could you clarify?
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Old 12-16-2004, 11:05 AM   #45
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I often wish that every word Jesus said was recorded.
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